CIV 7 issues raised by a Native American

[The_J]

you know that it was Nixon who brought up this story of the silent minority and I would say that it went badly for him (but I'm not an expert in modern American history, but in medieval history )

The silent majority also actually refers to dead people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority#Euphemism_for_the_dead, but hey, we can take some liberties here.
(after all, it's a game, not history... or a discussion about that lol)

 

[lt22677]

Yep. Games get one bite at the apple to be successful. That’s why I’m inclined to believe they are sure they’re on the right path. They’re not going to bet the farm on a bad idea.

Just because you registered a few days ago and have made 82 consecutive posts (and growing) repeating that you hate this idea doesn’t make it a “path of non-success.” Your dislike of the idea says nothing about its actual merits.

I've been lurking the forum for some time, that is, since Civilization 3, and since I saw that Civilization is taking the wrong path in my opinion, I signed up to express my opinion, then I could not sign up and keep quiet and continue to think so, but be careful the forum does not contain ALL civilization fans and on many other forums the trend is much less positive then ok they are old Civilizaton players who love the tradition, but it is not certain that they are a negligible number (and it is not certain that the same situation does not arise with new players) However, don't worry, in a few days I will have much less free time and therefore you will get rid of me so you can say how beautiful the Egypt-Mongolia-America line of evolution is

 

[Professor Phobo]

Sorry I should've said it doesn't feel like history to all but the 19-25% of you who apparenlty want this change and view it with any sort of positive feeling.....

Surely you can see why people would be gruntled? (is that even a word? Lets go with optimistic)

A major ambitious swing, that promises to introduce a whole rise-and-fall rhythm to the game, a compelling narrative pattern. Even just in pure gameplay terms, every Civ game has basically been over by the time you got to the middle ages or the renaissance at the latest. If they can solve that it's worth it to me to give up Space Babylon.

It's harder to be positive on something you don't have the details for and haven't tried out for yourself, of course. We don't know if it'll work! It could be bad, it could be bad on launch but fixed with patches, it could be bad on launch but fixed with an expansion, it could be good on launch and then ruined with the expansion, it could be laden with weird corporate chicanery that causes a fan backlash, if I could predict the future, I wouldn't be living in this orb beyond all of space and time while the swirling vortex of the nightmare dimensions scream endlessly at me.

Anyway, the poll is badly worded, the forum is niche, and it's not like if everyone else was buzzing you'd change your mind, so why do you keep bringing it up like it's supposed to harden hearts against Firaxis?

 

[bv98132454]

I've been lurking the forum for some time, that is, since Civilization 3, and since I saw that Civilization is taking the wrong path in my opinion, I signed up to express my opinion, then I could not sign up and keep quiet and continue to think so, but be careful the forum does not contain ALL civilization fans and on many other forums the trend is much less positive then ok they are old Civilizaton players who love the tradition, but it is not certain that they are a negligible number (and it is not certain that the same situation does not arise with new players) However, don't worry, in a few days I will have much less free time and therefore you will get rid of me so you can say how beautiful the Egypt-Mongolia-America line of evolution is

The Steam forum is more negative about the changes than here, fwiw.

 

[lt22677]

The silent majority also actually refers to dead people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority#Euphemism_for_the_dead, but hey, we can take some liberties here.
(after all, it's a game, not history... or a discussion about that lol)

I doubt you were referring to the dead (also because the dead don't buy )

 

[Professor Phobo]

The Steam forum is more negative about the changes than here, fwiw.

Yeah...but those are the Steam forums. They produce enough juvenile nerd rage to power most of the eastern seaboard.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah...but those are the Steam forums. They produce enough juvenile nerd rage to power most of the eastern seaboard.

The Steam forums make YouTube comments, Twitter, and Reddit collectively look like a level-headed paradise of intelligent conversation.

 

[lt22677]

Yeah...but those are the Steam forums. They produce enough juvenile nerd rage to power most of the eastern seaboard.

OK, obviously they aren't the silent majority either

 

[bv98132454]

Yeah...but those are the Steam forums. They produce enough juvenile nerd rage to power most of the eastern seaboard.

Ok, and? Youtube didn't exactly like it either. I've checked prominent streamers and the comments there are pretty skeptical, even when the streamer was positive about their experience at Firaxis (after a paid trip). I've never seen a stream erupt in Ls like the reveal did.

 

[Professor Phobo]

Ok, and? Youtube didn't exactly like it either. I've checked prominent streamers and the comments there are pretty skeptical, even when the streamer was positive about their experience at Firaxis (after a paid trip). I've never seen a stream erupt in Ls like the reveal did.

You've never watched a twitch game announcement stream when a female character was introduced then.

We're talking about gamers. A wretched hive of scum and villainy. But again, why do you guys think this matters? Am I supposed to stop thinking it might be cool because you're more certain it won't be than I am? Community sentiment is often wrong, especially before a game is out! It's not persuasive. Stop trying to make hate-fetch happen.

 

[RandV]

The reality of the alternative like starting 4000 BC with America and Lincoln as a leader doesn't do it much better.
At least this is new, and could lead to some fun mechanics.

Civilization isn't a reality simulator, it's a board-game like video game. From a game-design perspective I think how it's been works quite well. You may have the ridiculousness of a George Washington in the Bronze Age, but you also have Alexander the Great in the modern era. There's a certain balance to that where everyone is on an equal footing, and lets them cast a wide range of cultures and leaders into the game. It should really come down to like you say fun mechanics. The previous way is a design that has 'stood the test of time', while the new is largely untested and from viewing the competition so far is unpopular. "Realism" really shouldn't be in the equation, as I'm sure you can apply some version of the Uncanny Valley effect here.

Whether or not this is something to get people upset about beyond game mechanics, personally I have no issue but I'm not qualified to speak for other people.

 

[lt22677]

You've never watched a twitch game announcement stream when a female character was introduced then.

We're talking about gamers. A wretched hive of scum and villainy. But again, why do you guys think this matters? Am I supposed to stop thinking it might be cool because you're more certain it won't be than I am? Community sentiment is often wrong, especially before a game is out! It's not persuasive. Stop trying to make hate-fetch happen.

I doubt that many female YouTubers (most of them make horror games) have done live shows on civilizaton, I can tell you the opinion given by a YouTuber who I follow a lot and his response was:
That he would have bought the game to make a series/review of it, but that at present he would not have recommended it at least until Firaxis explained some mechanics in detail (including Civ-Switching) given that in his opinion the game could disappoint many people

 

[pokiehl]

I can tell you the opinion given by a YouTuber who posts a lot and his response was:
That he would have bought the game to make a series/review of it, but that at present he would not have recommended it at least until Firaxis explained some mechanics in detail (including Civ-Switching) given that in his opinion the game could disappoint many people

So I should listen to this mystery person because (a) he’s a YouTuber and (b) he “posts a lot”

Interesting qualifications there.

 

[lt22677]

So I should listen to this mystery person because (a) he’s a YouTuber and (b) he “posts a lot”

Interesting qualifications there.

Regarding the "post a Lot", my mistake (I corrected it, I'm Italian and I often use Google Translator to help me), regarding the mysterious person I can think the same about you (it goes for me too) if you want I'll post the link to the video (but it's in Italian) but his opinion is as valid as mine and yours (and I don't understand this thing that anyone expresses opinions not enthusiastic becomes Bad people, A wretched hive of scum and villainy as said by Mr. Professor Phobo)

 

[Patine]

(they PROBABLY kept their religion, though it has to be verified as a fact)

In various Pew reports, over 95% of Native Americans, Native Hawaiians, Canadian First Nations, and Inuit/Innu/Yupik identify as, "Christian," of some denomination or other. Syncretism with ancestral beliefs certainly exists, but it's impact, level of saturation, and practicing members engaging is difficult to gauge.

 

[Professor Phobo]

Okay this is definitely some kind of generational gap in internet literacy. If you follow game culture at all, you're probably aware that there's a pretty toxic subcurrent. The Steam forums are a known hotbed of just general frenzied negativity and so are a lot of twitch chats.

Likewise, Youtube is where "Don't Read the Comments" came from. Unless you're in a very well moderated space, social media/internet culture has gotten real sour.

 

[lt22677]

Okay this is definitely some kind of generational gap in internet literacy. If you follow game culture at all, you're probably aware that there's a pretty toxic subcurrent. The Steam forums are a known hotbed of just general frenzied negativity and so are a lot of twitch chats.

Likewise, Youtube is where "Don't Read the Comments" came from. Unless you're in a very well moderated space, social media/internet culture has gotten real sour.

There is no generational gap. I am not 80 years old. In the 90s I was in high school. I know very well how the internet and YouTube work. Furthermore, I am a history teacher, certainly not a 15 year old, I don't understand why you have to belittle those who don't think like you.

(it is true that my knowledge of English is basic, but in my field it is not required)

 

[TreVor_ish]

You’re right but in a different way than you meant.

In today’s environment of shareholders demanding immediate returns on their investments, commercial failures are more likely to end the franchise or force it into hiatus, rather than convince publishers to dump even more money into a project even sooner.

So yes, a decade for Civ 8 be incorrect if Civ 7 fails. Could be far longer.

I would disagree.

This would be true for a new IP, but Firaxis is not a new kid on the block and Civilization has over 3 decades of existance. It's almost like mario for platformers.
Sometimes new ideas might not necesserily work well for established franchise, and with a large community around a product, it's rather matter of urgency for potential damage control. (if this would happen)

 

[pokiehl]

I would disagree.

This would be true for a new IP, but Firaxis is not a new kid on the block and Civilization has over 3 decades of existance. It's almost like mario for platformers.
Sometimes new ideas might not necesserily work well for established franchise, and with a large community around a product, it's rather matter of urgency for potential damage control. (if this would happen)

There’s a huge graveyard of well-known, famous IPs that align with what I’ve said.

If something doesn’t sell, the money spigot turns off. That’s business.

 

[TreVor_ish]

There’s a huge graveyard of well-known, famous IPs that align with what I’ve said.

If something doesn’t sell, the money spigot turns off. That’s business.

Not after just one fail - unless it's spectacular, which I don't see happening in this franchise anyway.