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Civ Design Challenge III - Alternate History

Discussion in 'Civilization Design Resources' started by NiaoMeow, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. NiaoMeow

    NiaoMeow Ximicacan? XIMICACAN?

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    Natan I don't live in Israel... it is 12:30 at night and I want to sleep... I'll post it anyway.


    What if the Visigoths had won the Battle of Guadalete?​


    Notes:

    The Arabs ended Visigoth rule in Spain. How does this change the culture of Iberia?

    The Visigoths are Christian at this point. How does this affect Muslim Africa?

    How does this affect later exploration and Colonization (which was spearheaded by Spain)?

    Can everybody's dreams of a crazy queen wearing blue and white fleeing to South America ever come to fruition? (the Visigoths held all of Iberia, even Portugal).

    How will the Visigoths interact with the other Gothic tribes?

    What will the Visigoths be doing as Europe falls deeper into the Dark Ages?

    There are almost no restrictions or requirements in this challenge, so go crazy with your designs!
     
  2. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    I still think this is interesting, though I'm assuming your opposite scenario was 'what if the Moors had won the battle of Tours?' which would also have been very interesting. Nevertheless I think it sets a dodgy precedent if you can change the scenario at whim, still, wouldn't mind seeing tours popping up in another round!
     
  3. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige Chieftain

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    I also think its interesting, even though it wasn't the original scenario.

    I think I'll throw my hat in the ring...whenever I get a chance.
     
  4. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    Funny given how Age of Empires African Kingdoms just came out and had a campaign about this.
     
  5. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    So... Yeah:

    Original name: Visigoths.
    Current name: Gaterrans.
    Etymology: The name Gaterrans comes from the "Gate stations" established at various locations in the Gotlandic jungle in order to transfer goods and facilitate trade, especially with the English(as the two countries shared a common enemy: France).
    Origin: The Visigoths(Gaterrans) as we know today came from the Visigothic kingdom of Iberia(418- 814). King Roderic, now knowen as Roderic the Great ascended to the Visigoth throne at the year 710. Surrounded by many enemies, he saw a great opportunity when the Muslim invasion started. He united his enemies into a one, large army aimed to protect Iberia against the invaders, ultimately proving himself when the Muslim leader Ariq ibn Ziyad was killed at the great battle of the Guadalete river, leading to the retreat of the Muslims from Iberia. A series of events after Roderic's death in the year 763 culminated in a Carlonigian invasios of Iberia five years later, marking the end of the unified Iberian kingdom. However, Roderic's deeds were not to be forgotten: in his later years, Roderic became obsessed with shipbuilding. Founding the city of Rodricium in North Africa at 739 marked the beginning of the Visigoth's exploration period. When Charlemagne and his Grey knights knocked on her palace's doors, Theodora was already sailing to her father's pet city, knowing that the worked will never be the same for her. She first settled at the outpost of Nova Barcelona, and started transferring people from the areas still under her control and harassing those who weren't using her father's unique ship, Terraestus. She started building more of those, and as the Franks took her last European stronghold, she evacuated her people from north Africa, which was plundered by the Carolnigians a year later. She died on board of one of her ships form heart attack.

    Alaric Aedificatoris, Theodora's son, is considered to be the most important person in Gaterran history. He was responsible for the Goth's relocation to Gotland, giving the continent its name. Using his grandfather's and mother's fleet, he set sail with three ships in order to explore the ocean. After a Month long voyage, they reached a coast: Full of trees with exotic fruits and beautiful animals, and most importantly: They were alone, and after being chased by the Carolnigian kings who still ruled Hispania, it seemed that they finally have found their new home. Relocating his people, he started exploring further inland, founding native tribes which they called Arborains for the wooden villages they lived in.
    Founding more outposts and enlarging his new capital, Alaric was in need of builders: most of his people became merchants or hunters thanks to their Superior technology, which allowed them to establish trade routes from the Arborians to the Africans, spreading goods and earning money from all over the Atlantic ocean.

    Uhhhh we have a test stop reading like a Peach and get to the workers partttttt

    Desperately needing workers, he started abducting the native children and using them in his various building projects and to construct new ships, as the arborians were pretty skilled with timber. Those actions, however, angered the Arborian king, who declared war on the Gaterrans, pillaging caravans and massacring their merchants. Alaric didn't show any mercy in return: He set the native villages in fire, burning large parts of the rainforests and ultimately enslaving all Arborians.

    Years have passed since this time; for years the Gaterrans dominated the dark continent and its peoples, defeating all but the Inca, with whom they developed a massive trade network. But then the colonialism started: suddenly they found themselves competing with their old enemies, the Carolnigians which came to be known as the Carlogoths, started founding colonies north of the Gaterran's mainland. These colnies later rebelled against their Carolnigian overlords in what came to be known as the first Gaterrian war, after which the colonies became an autonomy within the Gatterian empire, granting it access to the western worked and to technology it would haven't got otherwise. A great many people started migrating to Gotland including philosophers, writers and Musicians(Great Amadeus Mozart is known to have spent his last days there).

    There was, however, a "new spirit" of sorts. A movement supporting democratic principles, already managing to abolish slavery in America started gaining massive support amongst the colonists, particularly in Peru and New Ghana. The "Old people's front", or OLP was known to be very aggressive despite its peaceful teachings, as shown in the mass murder of slave owners in Richmond, Virginia at 1864. Nevertheless, in the second Gaterrian war the Royalists prevailed but the empire didn't regain its former status: Colony be colony, the empire started losing its territories, eventually shrinking to its original size by 1903 with dissolution of the union with Greater Toulouse.

    At 1934, with the advent of Fascism in Europe, once again was the kingdom in danger: Ricardo Malarius, young and charismatic leader of the "Guiding hand" movement became a popular figure amongst the Gaterrans. Suggesting alliance with Nazi Germany, he was arrested. This was not well received by the public, who released him from his prison at November 8th, 1937 in what came to be known as Bloody Monday, and marched towards the royal palace. The weak king, Jesus VII, agreed to the people's demands and made Malarisu the prime minister. While being a brilliant military tacticain and occupying many of the empire's former territories within a month, he was racist, and mass murdered the Native Americans(especially the incan population) in a plan resembling Hitler's final solution. He was removed by a French- Sponsored rebellion at August 4th, 1953.
    Costumes: Following their arrival to Gotland, the Gaterrians adopted many of the local costumes: Their Gaterran elite usually wears Pinna suits, and the commoners tend to make clothes for themselves, Usually using materials acquired from the locals. By the time the fascists rose to power, most citizens started wearing European clothes, brought to Gotalnd by English merchants.


    Gaterrian Empire
    (Alaric Aedificatoris)​

    UA: From the Africans to the Arborians
    Start with the exploration social policy tree unlocked, and gain +5% :trade: trade route range and :c5gold: gold from :trade: trade routes per each social policy you adopt in it. Coastal foreign cities under your direct control don't increase :c5culture: social policy cost and grant :c5culture: culture from :trade: Naval trade routes.

    UU: Terraestus
    Replaces Carrack\ Galleass. Has 18 :c5rangedstrength: ranged strength and 16 :c5strength: melee. In addition to being much cheaper, it has the "Voyageur en-route" promotion, granting it :c5culture: culture when moving near land tiles, and allowing it to enter ocean.

    UI: Gate Hut
    Unlocked at currency. May only be built on jungle tiles adjacent to luxuries or coast, and never near each other. Has the same yields as trading post, but also grants +1 :c5culture: culture per each adjacent luxury or :trade: trade route and +1 :c5culture: culture after guilds. For 3 turns after adopting a social policy, grants :c5production: production equal to its yields.
     
  6. Howard Tafty

    Howard Tafty Minister-Chairman

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    Principality of Theodoro

     
  7. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Fair warning, my vision of Spain is, er... worse. As in, trigger warnings for Shoah refs and seriously ugly antisemitism worse. Spanish Jewry had it rough under the Visigoths.

    I, er, I haven't written it yet, but I wanted to do an outright villain civ.
     
  8. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    You know, its more about the ability to behave in a racist way rather than about anything you write...

    Though I expected something involving Africa honestly.
     
  9. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Thought about it, but my wheelhouse is Sub-Saharan... though Visigothic Mali could be interesting no bad scape stick to the plan
     
  10. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    Actually, why not?

    Kingdom of Mali(Theodoric II Augustus)
    UA: Desert cross
    Gain :c5faith: faith equal to 5% of your cities' :c5strength: strength, increased by 5% per each :trade: trade route sent to or from it. :c5strength: Defensive buildings increase the :c5gold: gold from :trade: trade routes sent to cities and reduce tile improvement maintenance up to 50%.

    UU: Ulbandus militis
    Replaces horseman but does not require horses. Unlocked at currency, the Ulbandus militis is stronger(14 :c5strength:) than the unit it replaces, and starts with +1 XP per each desert tile worked by the city upon training. Gains double movement in desert and heals based in his XP when killing a unit(max. 50 HP healed).

    UB: Town cross
    Replaces temple. Permanently increases the XP of units trained in the city each time the city performs a range attack. In times of war, increases the city's :c5strength: strength by 1 per each 2 :c5citizen: civilians present in it.
     
  11. NiaoMeow

    NiaoMeow Ximicacan? XIMICACAN?

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    Silly Natan, you can't enter two designs! :lol:

    (I actually like this civ design better... might have to do with the UA name...)
     
  12. Scapegrace

    Scapegrace Obvious Spambot

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    Okay, I'm going to try a different tack. What if it wasn't that they won the battle... but that it was over before it started?

    ---

    "Despite the rape of his daughter, despite the assault against his dignity this presented, Julian was loyal to his King, and led his city well. A skilled negotiator and canny diplomat, it was he who presented the Umayyads with tales of the fat, complacent Visigothic kingdom of Hispania and Tolosa, even offering the use of the harbour at Ceuta as a staging post for an invasion across the Strait of the Pillars. This was far too good an offer for the caliphate to refuse, especially since they had unsuccessfully tried to conquer it. Mustering an army under Musa bin Nusayr, they sailed troop transport ships from Tangiers to Ceuta and set sail from the Abylan Bay... only for Julian to bombard the Umayyad fleet as it left the harbour, setting vessel after vessel ablaze and leaving the convoy in disarray. Furious at such deception, the Umayyads redoubled their efforts to secure Ceuta for themselves, and Julian cemented his place as a loyal vassal of Roderic. What followed was the bloodiest war of the eighth century C.E., and one of the longest, but the Visigoths emerged triumphant over this foe... but there were other problems to the north."
    -- M.J. Viguera Molina, "The Visigothic settlement of the Ceutine Maghreb", p. 13-38, The Foundation of the Ceutine. Part 1: History and Society (ed. M. Martin), Ashgate, UK, 1998 (vol. 46 of The Foundation of the Classical Islamic World series). Reviews all Arabic sources.

    ---

    "Berber influences and a distance from the capital meant that Ceuta was largely seen more as a colonial outpost than an integral core territory during the reign of the Visigoths, separated as it was from mainland Hispania by the Strait of the Pillars. This granted it a certain amount of autonomy, which, combined with moderating influences from the rest of the Rif in cities such as Tetuán, Tangier, Arcila, and Rincón, made it a rather more tolerant place of the Jewish community, particularly through the ninth and tenth centuries. These cities eventually formed a loose trading league, allowing the bounties of the local orange orchards to flow into mainland Spain in exchange for military protection from the various Muslim attempts at conquest. This in turn meant that the fortifications of those cities were built and frequently tested, but the old methods still stood firm against assault after assault, both from the Arabs and Berbers to the south and the death throes of the Visigothic Kingdom across the sea as it splintered into the patchwork of rival duchies that categorized medieval Spanish history.

    "It was towards the end of the fifteenth century, however, that trouble began to brew for the Ceutine League. The kings of the Visigoths had long made it their business to drive Jews out of Hispania, and many of them had set up as traders and middlemen in the comparatively liberal and enlightened Ceutine trading ports. They enabled Ceuta to become a very wealthy city indeed, and its Jewish population (while still theoretically cordoned off in the almilla) slowly became more and more integrated into urban life, to say nothing of integral to it. Jewish advisers became common in the League cities, as did Muslim traders, albeit at a slower rate; and the distance from the mainland led the League to a very serious problem. Her name was Isabella of Castile.

    "Aragon had long embargoed the Ceutine League's Jewish traders from its ports, but unbeknownst to the League (or perhaps perceived as being beneath its notice) it had been hoovering up the smaller duchies of eastern Hispania, whether by marriage or force of arms. By the late fifteenth century, it was in control of the entire east coast of Spain, with the rest of it controlled by Castile, Leon, and (after a series of rebellions) Portugal, with Pamplona and Navarra reduced to Aragonese client states. With internal pressures mounting, a solution was cooked up; a marriage between Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II, King of Aragon. It went ahead, and the old Latin name was dredged up again: Hispania. Spain, to us. The various kings and princes of the Ceutine League were very pointedly not invited.

    "Isabella was a woman driven by her faith, and Ferdinand, while a capable administrator, was rather cowed by the furious strength of her intellect and ambition. With the marriage secured and her reign in place, she set out to purge ever more furiously the Jews from the homeland... and make sure they had nowhere to go. Jews began pouring into the League's cities, and with the key markets of Spain and southern Italy now rapidly closing off, the League was slowly being starved. The voyages to the comparatively moderate Portugal were extremely dangerous, as while the various corsairs of the Maghreb were bad enough for traders, the naval ambitions of a freshly-reunited Hispania made things quite amazingly worse. War was in the offing as Hispanian ships patrolled the Strait of the Pillars, and the French were increasingly reluctant to trade as well. Venetians and Savoyards and more besides were still open, and kontors of the Hanseatic League were set up in Ceuta, Rincón, and Alhucema to try and keep the money coming in, but eventually the fate of the League was sealed, and the Reconquista began... for a season.

    "As soon as it began, the League marshalled every ally it could and petitioned Pope Sixtus IV for guidance. Isabella, they argued, was a she-devil of the most vicious stripe, for had she not declared what purported to be a holy war against good Christian kings and princes for the sake of coin? This was not a worshipper of God, but of Mammon, they cried, and they had an ace up their sleeve as far as persuasion went. Sixtus was a Pope widely renowned for his nepotism, and the Prince of Arcila, Pedro III de Trastamara, managed to inveigle his way into the della Rovere family and became a cardinal himself. A Papal Bull was issued denying the right of Hispania to wage war, with dire consequences if it continued: foremost among the sanctions would be the annulment of the (extremely dubious) Bull of 1464, which gave Ferdinand permission to marry within the third degree of consanguinity -- and without which, the marriage would be void. It was a chilling threat for the devout couple, and they consented.

    "With this threat slowly passing, and the ports of Catholic countries (even, reluctantly, Hispania) opening up to traders seen as protected by the Vatican (earning them the soubriquet tenderos del cielo, or "heaven's shopkeepers"), the Ceutine League entered its first golden age as a uniquely Ceutine identity began to take shape, and even through the wars with the Sultanate of Maghrib and other colonial attempts, they were seen as safe havens for the Jews of Europe..."
    -- Paul Freedman, Chester D. Tripp Professor of History, Yale University, lecture given Friday 13th September, 1996.

    ---

    "In 1940, the Ceutine League -- the only place in North Africa with Judaism as a state religion -- was reformed in the face of Nazi aggression in North Africa. Gearing for war, the cities were well-defended, and Montgomery used their request to join the Allies (in rather stark contrast to the pseudo-neutrality of Francoist Spain) as the manna from heaven it undoubtedly was. With a sea trade port in the capital Ceuta, his lines were that bit more secure, and his ranks were bolstered by thousands of Jewish volunteers, eager to take the fight to the Nazi oppressors that had chased them from their homes. Lacking the facilities for tank construction, and with the QF 6-pounder still some time away from major deployment in North Africa, it was up to Coronel Levi Rebolledo of the Ceutine Jewish Auxiliaries, which rapidly became known as the Legión de Sión (Legion of Zion) to cook up their own. The results were light tankettes that constantly harassed Nazi supply lines and acted as scouts for Montgomery in the field, but more importantly the designs attracted the attention and captured the imagination of Major-General Percy Hobart, who began to draw up plans for what became known as "Hobart's Funnies", the gallimaufry of specialist tanks and tankettes that were used to great effect by the Legion of Zion during the Sicilian campaigns of the end of the War..."
    -- David Fletcher MBE, "Forward, the Funnies!": The Anglo-Ceutine Specialist Tank Program, Schiffer, 1998.

    ---

    Ceutine League (Rodrigo VI)
    Start Bias: Coastal
    Capital: :c5capital: Ceuta
    UA: Heaven's Shopkeepers
    +1 :c5gold: Gold in all Cities for each different Religion with a follower in the :c5capital: Capital. Naval Trade Routes have 50% longer Range and generate +7 additional :c5gold: Gold per turn when sent from a City garrisoned with an Armoured Unit.
    UB: Almilla (replaces Bank)
    Standard Bank bonuses, but has only one :c5greatperson: Merchant specialist slot. However, this is ably compensated by its +3 :c5faith: Faith generation, the fact that it grants a +33% :c5production: Production bonus to Armoured Units after an Ideology is adopted, and that it is unlocked at Civil Service rather than Banking. Armoured Units trained in a city with an Almilla cost no Maintenance. Does not require a Market; instead, requires a Shrine.
    UU: Legion of Zion (replaces Landship)
    Faster and cheaper than the Landship it replaces, the Legion of Zion is unlocked at Plastics rather than Combustion and starts with both Ambush I and the unique Promotion "Hobart's Funnies", which grants a +33% :c5strength: Combat Bonus against a randomly-selected unit type. It's different every time! Upgrades to Tank but does not obsolete. Requires Oil.

    ---

    Hopefully this is okay. Jewish Ceuta? Jewish Ceuta. It am p cool. =]

    P.S.: A couple of things potentially of note. Every person giving a speech here? They're an OTL historian. The only people I made up are Prince Pedro III of Arcila, Levi Rebolledo, and Rodrigo VI of Ceuta. Rodrigo (and how could I not call him that) is special because ITTL he was the first Jewish leader of the Ceutine League, and while his reign over the League was towards the end of the golden age mentioned in the wall of text lore above, it seemed like a good fit.
     
  13. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige Chieftain

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    Excerpt From the “Empire of Hispania” article on Sivlopedia:

    The Battle of Guadalete and the Rise of Hispania

    The Battle of Guadalete was above all else, a close-run thing between two wayward kingdoms, an empire feeling the effects of overstretch, and a kingdom prone to civil war and infighting. Yet it was Roderic I’s (Hispanian: Roderico I) Visigoths who defeated the Arab Caliphate at the Barbate River (also known as the Battle of Guadalete) in 711, killing Tariq ibn Ziyad and destroying the Caliphate’s attempt to infiltrate Europe in the name of Islam.

    Despite this prestigious victory, Roderico I still had to deal with various Islamic raiders across the straits, as well as rivals within Hispania. Sadly, Roderic (Hispanic: Rodrigo) was ultimately killed during the crisis, as the Kingdom continued to deal with rival nobles fighting for the throne in Toledo. Ultimately the eleven provinces would be reorganized under an elective monarchy, transforming the Kingdom of Visigothia to the Empire of Hispania during the reign of Sisenando II in 744.

    Under this new system, dukes, counts, bishops and rulers of free cities would elect a relative of the ruling dynasty (The House of Toledo, and after 924, the House of Malaca) to accede to the rank of Emperor, and as Emperor, would protect the rights and privileges of the nobility, clergy and aristocracy. Even as the dukes would ultimately see their authorities in their provinces reduced, they were still effectively the most important figures, ultimately being reformed into electors.

    Excerpt from the “Iudila IV” article on Sivlopedia.

    Iudila IV was the first from the House of Corduba to accede to the Imperial throne of Hispania in the year 1230. The son of the Duke of Corduba, Aecio, Iudila claimed descent from both Visigothic and Romano-Hispanic lines. Under Iudila’s reign, he oversaw Hispania’s crusade against the Aghlabids controlling much of North Africa. Leading the charge alongside Francia, Aquitania, and Bavaria, Iudila saw the creation of the Kingdom of Mauretania, centered around its capital of Ceuta, overseeing control over both sides of the Mediterranean in the process. A culturally learned monarch, he oversaw the use of Berber and even Arabic architects to design splendid palaces in Toledo and elsewhere, many of these designs standing (one even being the personal property of the current Hispanic Emperor Aurelio IV) to this day. Iudila, although a Catholic and supported Catholicism, often put his philosophical pursuits first, as evident in the Council of Tingiers (OTL Tangiers) which saw learned men from Christian, Islamic and even Jewish faiths engaging in dialogue with each other. His reign saw a reduction, but not elimination, of the persecution of Jews within the realm, as well as Hispanian (OTL Castilian without the Arabic elements) replacing Latin as the official language of government, all while maintaining the various local languages.*

    Empire of Hispania
    Leader: Iudila IV de Corduba
    Unique Ability: Council of Tingiers: Cities gain a stacking bonus of +5 Culture for every religion that is not your own within it. All units, upon killing an enemy unit, gain Culture equal to half the victorious unit’s strength.
    Unique Unit: Oathsworn Crusader: Replaces Longswordsman: Cannot be purchased by Gold, can only be promoted or purchased by Faith, which is cheaper than the conventional Longswordsman, despite being weaker (18 vs. 21, 120 Gold/Production vs. 75 Faith). Comes with the Promotion “Crusader Oath” which increases combat strength by 25% whenever fighting another civ or city-state with a different dominant religion to you.
    Unique Building: Maurigothic Castle: Replaces Castle: In addition to its normal yields, provides +2 Culture and +1 Great Work of Art Slot.
    Capital: Toledo

    *Besides Hispanian, the other languages include Septimanian (Occitan/Catalan hybrid), Baetican (Closest to OTL Castilian as it also incorporates Arabic and Berber elements), Basque (as per OTL), Visigothic (OTL Gothic language using the Latin Alphabet), Suebian (Swabian German with large Galician and Castilian influences) and Gallaecian (Galician/Portuguese hybrid)
     
  14. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    When is this supposed to end? I only just got back tonight and really want to enter, already have loads for it! Really hoping its open till tomorrow morning at least?

    Starting the write up now so hopefully it'll be done in time! True to going a little off the rails in my last submission I'm going to be dealing with the idea that winning a single battle does not a successful empire make!

    Spoiler :
     
  15. NiaoMeow

    NiaoMeow Ximicacan? XIMICACAN?

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    Great! We can start voting as soon as you submit your design (maybe a little later ;)).
     
  16. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

     
  17. zwei833

    zwei833 HRE Mercenary

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    Sorry, I misunderstood the Design Challenge. It seem that I should not post this post here.
     
  18. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    1. How so?
    2. Scott, that's literally alternate history.
     
  19. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    What do you mean?
     
  20. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    You basically gave an alternate version of the conquista, which is... Well, cool, considering your idea. Though that's not how I interpreted the term "alternate history".
     

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