1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[R&F] Civ of the Week: Kongo

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by acluewithout, Jul 2, 2018.

Tags:
?

Who should be next weeks Civ

Poll closed Jul 7, 2018.
  1. Macedon

    53.8%
  2. Sythia

    46.2%
  1. playshogi

    playshogi Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,395
    T206 CV. Thanks to @Boyan_Sun for the idea of combining Pingala with the Oracle built outside of the capital, but the Apadana was gone by T60 and the Great Library was gone just as I finished Recorded History. Even so, Kongo has 4 extra slots, so it was all good. I ended up with 8 cities and was totally peaceful (except for capturing a free city with 2 warriors and an archer). I think having a research alliance instead of a cultural alliance would have served me better. The cultural alliance boosted my main competitor, while a research alliance would have enabled me to get to computers faster. The best thing about my game was having Babylon tucked neatly into my territory: science for great works of writing!
     
    liv likes this.
  2. liv

    liv Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,393
    Those wonders are tricky. Need to really think about how much there is to chop when planning it out. I had the Oracle snatched away with one turn left in one Kongo game.

    I agree Kongo was strong before RF (because it built campus and not HolySite) but now I find that it is often a civ that gets taken over wholly or partly even before I get to them. I think that the lack of production that Kongo sometimes have with jungle starts hampers the AI

    And I enjoyed the discussion this week. I looked at several of the saved games and admired your work and I think I learned a lot about cultural play
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  3. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,017
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    They certainly struggle more on TSL maps after Rise and Fall in my opinion. Usually a combination of zulu and Nubia put the hurt on them. I haven't seen them eliminated that I can recall, but hampered in to be insignificant the rest of the game. Certainly not the dominators they were before Rise and Fall.

    Looks like I'll fire up a Macedon game. I'll let the professionals create the thread for it. I doubt I could get all the background information looking all pretty.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Ferocitus likes this.
  4. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    2,781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Kongo is definitely under a lot more pressure on the largest TSL Terra maps with
    Egypt, Nubia, Zulus and Arabia also in Africa. Egypt tends start well but the
    others are usually far too strong in the long run.
     
  5. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Gender:
    Male
    That's because most people don't like to use overflow exploit. With Magnus+Overflow, production is not a problem, and Kongo's capital is usually surrounded by woods.
     
  6. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,540
    Gender:
    Male
    Even with all the overflow in the world, it can be very hard to get the Oracle and Great Library as well as the other things in time. Let's say you can't boost Political Phi or something.

    But I guess it is no war.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  7. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,915
    Mysticism is a horrible civic to beeline... Oracle is not really worth the opportunity cost (archers, builders, settlers are almost always better options early game) moreover, unless you have super early culture output, Magnus comes too late to help you beat the deity AI to it.
     
  8. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Gender:
    Male
    On our side, the more mature way is to have 3 cities around T30, and then there will be 3 monuments at the worst, which will complete Phi when it enters classical era or earlier. This involves opening moves. In fact, people who can play peaceful game are all very skilled warmonger, who can defense the AI and barbarian's early attack with the minimum force, which is another topic.
     
    Archon_Wing likes this.
  9. playshogi

    playshogi Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,395
    Is it worth stealing a builder on turn 8, if I have 3 gems to improve? To repel the Spanish attack, my next 8-9 builds had to be warriors until I felt safe to build the monument. This start includes a relic found on turn 7.
    Screenshot (208).png
     
  10. liv

    liv Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,393
    I would say it was not worth it. Given that you had a nice income you could buy the builder and focus on getting out a couple of cites. On culture plays it is good to try to avoid war.
    However, It is possible of course that Spain would have attacked you anyways and you would have needed the defense. To avoid it maybe selling luxuries for more friendly relations would be possible . Maybe your first city should have been built on top of a luxury
     
  11. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Gender:
    Male
    This involves more sophisticated calculations. In fact, this civic is very interesting. First, it can first provide an envoy, if you send it to a cultural CS that's equal to an additional monument, or send to a military CS to boost unit production; second, it is usually the cheapest civic after Magnus, which provide a significant boost to chop value (3 civic - 43, 4 civic - 48, 5 civic - 54, 6 civic - 58). 54 is a critical number, which can guarantee only 3 chops are needed to finish Pyramids.
     
    Hactar and acluewithout like this.
  12. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    971
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I don't have the temperament for this and have never done it, but it looks as though Sweden has just pushed the efficient CV into the ultraefficient zone. You get the tourism double the auto-theming then can redouble that with Pingala and Renya.
    Spoiler :
    SwedenTheming.jpg

     
  13. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    14,142
    It was what, 64 Tourism from the QB? That's gonna be crazy with whichever Governor has that double Tourism promotion.
     
    BarbarianHunter likes this.
  14. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,017
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Currently Reyna, but going to be Pingala I believe.
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  15. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Gender:
    Male
    In GS you don't need Reyna any more, curator promotion now moves to Pingala. That means you can save at most 3 governor points, and don't need to build Oracle separately in another city(Pingala double writer GPP) from your capital (Reyna double tourism). Besides, overflow exploit is gone, so this strategy may not as efficient as in RF.
     
    Mr. Shadows and BarbarianHunter like this.
  16. Leathaface

    Leathaface Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,699
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Kongo was a top tier Civ pre-R&F when housing was difficult to come by until neighbourhoods and they got double great person points. Now I think they are a just above average Civ, though they are still good at Culture victory.

    (plus their music is awesome)
     
  17. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,563
    I swear I used to get this boost before R&F, but yes it is definitely not working now.
     
  18. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,864
    Gender:
    Male
    The changes to the Governors in Civ 6 makes them even more like the Social Policies of Civ 5. Now Pingala is more tightly focussed on Culture and Science, Amani on City States, etc. They were set up that way anyway, it's just even more tightly focussed with the GS changes.
     
  19. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,617
    Agreed. Frankly, I'd rather have had FXS bring back social policies than the current Governors.
     
    shaglio and steveg700 like this.
  20. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Warlord

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,535
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Main Strength: +4 palace slot, which enables the chance of very quick culture victory. (Though not stable on every map, of course. For example, in continent map this becomes a joke.)

    Disadvanatages: All other things. UI basically provide a not too efficient investment, but at the cost of ~300 gold per city. UU costs more production with strength reduced. UA makes you cannot use most religion bonuses (since many of such bonuses require holy site), although the leader is dedicated to religion.
     

Share This Page