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[R&F] Civ of the Week: Nubia

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by acluewithout, Jun 10, 2018.

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  1. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    • Leader: Amanitore.
    • Leader Ability: Kandake of Meroe. +20% Production towards districts, increasing to +40% if there's a Nubian Pyramid adjacent to the City Centre.

    • Civ Ability: Ta-Seti. +50% Production towards Ranged Units. Ranged units gain +50% combat experience. +1 Production for Mines over Strategic Resources, and +2 Gold for Mines of Bonus and Luxury Resources.

    • Unique Unit (Civ): Pitati Archer. Ranged Unit which replaces the Archer. Unlocks at Archery. Production Cost 70 (vs 60 for Archer, but Production Cost then reduced by Ta-Seti ability). Combat Strength 17 (vs. 15), Ranged Strength 30 (vs. 25), Movement 3 (vs. 2), Maintenance 1. Upgrades into Crossbow Men.

    • Unique Infrastructure: Nubian Pyramid. Unique Improvement (requires one Builder Charge). Must be built on Desert (flat or hills) or Floodplains. Unlocks at Masonry. Provides +1 Faith, +1 Food if Adjacent to a City Centre, and if next to any other District, +1 of whatever is that District's Base Yield.
    • Leader Agenda: City Planner. Creates masses and masses and masses of Lethal Pitati Archers that will sweep down on you and destroy everything you've built like they're the Borg, or Fast-Moving Zombies, or Fast-Moving Borg that have been turned into Zombies by other Zombies that were also quite fast to start off with. ... no wait ... maybe they patched that out. Sorry: Amanitore tries to build the maximum number of Districts in each City and likes those that do the same. Dislikes people that don't build as many Districts as possible.
    • Suggested Reading List: None (because I'm travelling). But I may add links to some threads later.
    Notes:
    • Last week was a tie, and next week is our last Ancient Era Civ (because Sythia was never Ancient Era, which was a mistake by me). No Poll this week. Instead, the coin has picked Nubia for this week. Gilgabro (and his Epic Beard) are next week. I'll restart the Poll for Classical Era Civs next week so you can all pick Rome... ah, sorry, I mean ... so we can all democratically vote who we have next, whoever that might be.

    • No particular comments on Nubia. The Pitati Archer won the last Best Unit Ever Elimination Thread.

    • Ranged Units have had some changes over the past few patches. Ranged Units get a -17 when attacking Cities and (since the Winter 2018 Patch) against Naval Units (Bombards do not get the same negatives, but do get a -17 against Land Units). Garrisoned Ranged Units are always treated as "Elevated" when Garrisoned if the City has Walls or City Defences.

    • Note, your City Defence is always equal to the Melee Strength of the Garrisoned Unit, or the Melee Strength of the strongest unit you've ever built -10, whichever is higher. So, usually, if you Garrison a Ranged Unit, you'll use the second basis for determining City Defence Strength, because your strongest unit -10 is still probably higher than the strength of the ranged unit you just Garrisoned.
    [Edit: see underlined text.]
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  2. liv

    liv Warlord

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    Another Nubia thread? Seems like we are inundated today.
    Yeah slingers, then pitati archers and go. I like rushing with them. But better on higher difficulties to get some push back (early walls and knights)
    The chop with them makes them stronger of course
    Problem with them is that they can get very flat starts with lot of desert.
    And sometimes difficult to finance the number of archers needed.

    If you are going for an all out domination rush they are not the best due to the upgrade path

    I do not know why Pitati won the elimination thread without the special ability of Nubia I think they should be third objectively speaking (cost and strength and longtime usefulness factors)

    I will trying a game with them for sure
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  3. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Haven't played them since they came out last summer. This will be interesting. I had to read the OP to familiarize myself with them again. I never found them all that great to be honest. Powerful for sure, because of the UU, but nothing that really stands out for me. But they have a somewhat unique strategy with the builders trying to get Nubian Pyramids down, so that makes them a little different.

    And I won't necessarily vote Rome for next week's poll. I played them not too long ago, so I may vote for someone else.

    Initial thoughts are early warfare is almost a must. An isolated start may be almost a death sentence. Otherwise you aren't taking advantage of a very powerful ability (and uu). Of course this will mean an early alliance is almost out of the question due to warmongering penalty and how long it takes to build up positive modifiers even after that penalty wears off. You are better going the lone wolf route with them and just build up such a large empire it doesn't matter. They also have a decent builder strategy with their Pyramids, and you probably don't want to get too bogged down in wars that you aren't building any districts.

    I will probably go for archers and a quick conquest and then masonry after that and focus on building. But much of this will depend on my map.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  4. Mr. Shadows

    Mr. Shadows Nomad of the time streams

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    There's no arguing with the strength of the Pitati Archer. They move fast, they hit hard and they replace a staple unit that you're going to build anyway. They're window is a little limited o. Deity but it's generally enough to take control of your continent. Nubia isn't the most interesting Civ but they sure are strong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  5. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Oh and a typo in the OP. That should be 20% for the initial district, 40% of there's a Nubian Pyramid next to the city center. And that's for all districts. For some reason I was thinking it was only the first one (I'm confusing it with the pantheon).

    Here is my start. King level if anyone wants to play it.

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    The OP doesn't mention that Nubian pyramids must be built on desert or flood plains tiles, which immediately makes them rather situational compared to many other UBs (even unique districts, some of which have placement restrictions like requiring hills for example).

    The district building bonus is nice, but also situational given the reliance on the pyramid for that extra 20% boost. Frankly I think it pales in comparison to the Aztec Legend of the Five Suns, which lends itself to more overall production bonuses with some work put into acquiring villagers (whether with Eagle Warriors or otherwise).

    That said, the powerful pitati makes up for that in spades.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  7. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Yep, this is important. I forgot as well until I tried to build them. None of my cities are situated where I can build them next to the city center. :(
     
  8. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    Oh dear. I need to be more careful. I’ll update the OP when I’m in the same country as my computer again (should be tomorrow). And yes, there are some good Civs for classical so perhaps Rome won’t be first out of the gate...
     
  9. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    So the question I have is the Nubian Pyramids worth building if you aren't building them next to your city center? I only had one city so far I was able to build next to my city center, and only built one pyramid so far.

    And as expected, the Patati archer is a monster, just like I remember them. If you beeline for them, and why shouldn't you, you can really hammer the AI hard before they put up much resistance, at least on King difficulty. I took out Egypt (2 cities), Russia (2 cities), and England (4 cities). And that's everyone on my continent. :) I won't fill out my continent, it's too big, and I don't want to manage all that, I'll just fill in some gaps.

    But honestly, this game is already won. Hardly even seems worth finishing. Easily a top tier Civ. I give them an A+
    Not the best Petra city, but makes those desert sheep next to Ulrulu pretty awesome.
    Spoiler :
     
  10. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter Chieftain

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    I used your save again. A+ about sums it up.
    I built one not adjacent to the city center around the wonder for an extra faith point. Was also able to turn a couple of +2culture/+2faith desert tiles into +1food/+2culture/+2faith by having them adjacent to the city center. Other than that, I don't plan to build any and consider them next to useless.
    I planned a religious victory, but saw that Egypt was also in line for a prophet. I shrugged, built a few Pitachi, and ended taking the whole civ. The war was completely without planning or forethought and also started kind of late. Patati are like a hot arrow through butter.
    I'm going to finish as I don't have never won a religious victory as such (ie. with apostles).
    Spoiler :
    Sid Meier's Civilization VI (DX11) 6_10_2018 6_06_39 PM.png
    PS, I was wondering where my mystery iron was coming from the whole game. I managed to start a campus district in the area south of Sedeinga in both games and if I recall correctly having a district on top of the resource grants access to it as a strategic resource.
    Spoiler :
    Sid Meier's Civilization VI (DX11) 6_10_2018 5_41_53 PM_LI.jpg
     
  11. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    One thing I really like about Civ VI are these sort of “opposites” it creates. eg Egypt v Nubia.
    Sythia v Mongols. England Redcoats v France reverse Redcoats.

    Some opposites are also quite subtle. Like Greece v Rome. Both are culture Civs, but in slightly reversed ways. And then Rome, which ultimately conquered the Greeks, gets a unique unit that inherrently has a +10 versus the Greek’s unique unit (hey, I see what you did there FXS).

    Overall, I like Egypt better than Nubia. It’s hard to get excited about archers. But Nubia is clearly the stronger of the two.
     
  12. Flaxton

    Flaxton Chieftain

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    Was disappointed when this wasn't Nubia's song :) 3:14 for historical context

     
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  13. KayAU

    KayAU Chieftain

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    I like Nubia thematically. They are set up as a rival for Egypt, with many similar themes and abilities (ancient era mobile ranged unit, special use for desert tiles, district build bonus, economic bonus). However, Nubia just seems more powerful in just about all areas.
    • Leader Ability - Kandake of Meroe: +20% is not a huge bonus, but I would rather have +20% to all districts everywhere, than 15% to districts and wonders on flood plains. When you are able to get a Nubian Pyramid next to your city center, this becomes 40%, which is pretty good. Overall, this is a good ability.
    • Civ Ability - Ta-Seti: The bonus production and experience for ranged units, which are already very effective as the stand, is pretty amazing. The extra gold and production for mines on resources is very nice. These are tiles you usually want to be working anyway, so getting all that extra gold and production is just going to make it even more worthwhile.
    • Unique Unit - Pitati Archer: The best unique unit in the game. In addition to being stronger, costing less and leveling up more quickly due to the synergy with Ta-Seti, replacing an already great unit, upgrading to other good units, the really awesome thing about the Pitati is how it combines mobility with range, which gives it a major tactical advantage.
    • Unique Infrastructure - Nubian Pyramid: This is the only area where Egypt arguably has something better, with their early culture UI. The Nubian Pyramid is alright, though. When possible, you want one next to your city center for the production bonus, and you may want to build one or two around your districts unless it would interfere with district placement and adjacencies. The maximum yield for a Nubian Pyramid is good, but in practice, it is not easy to get that much of it.

    Honestly, I wish Egypt would get a buff, as suggested in the Egypt thread. The need is made somewhat more apparent when you look at how potent rival Nubia is.
     
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  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It’s all about an archer rush... 60 gold per slinger upgrade makes it not that simple if you have a gold poor start. The starts can be a challenge but once you are moving you have to be fast on higher levels. Having poor terrain or no close neighbours means the Nubia can run out of steam a bit. Still a top tier civ as the 3 MP is v strong on an archer.
    A one trick pony with a bit of help from some situational pyramids makes them dull, only really good for domination play.
    I lost count of how many starts I played with them over the last few days, I can happily say that if you like being OP then Nubia can be OK to play, otherwise it’s likely you will fall asleep at the keyboard or get RSI from all that shooting.
     
  15. eleven11

    eleven11 Chieftain

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    See, I find them easy to play peacefully after a bit of ancient era warmongering. They aren't the most effective or the most fun for peaceful play but they are very capable. Nubia warmongering doesn't need 20 billion archers. You can do it effectively with as few as 4 as long as your end-goal isn't world domination. Use your initial archer force to pillage, harass and gain XP. Eventually mix in a few horsemen and start taking cities, tech to Knights and replace the horsemen and grab a couple siege machines. At that point you should be rank 4 Xbows that can kill 1 unit a turn. You can keep a Nubia warpath going and going. It's the energizer bunny. Pitati stop being effective against walls in medieval but their role is still effective in clearing units with the double-attack. So effective that you can easily rush knights while relying on Pitati's to keep up on dishing damage. When knights start waning in power, field cannons enter the mix.

    But I prefer peaceful victory conditions. I've played Nubia probably close to 20 times and their starts are pretty decent a majority of the time. Most of the time it's possible to use the 40% district bonus in at least 2 tall cities. These are cities on the edge of the desert so they are quite capable of keeping pace through modern age, if needed. After your core cities are established you can blanket the map with low-pop cities (REX) through the desert and use the pyramid bonus to speed up district construction most beneficial to your victory cause. Easy population control. The builder pyramid encourages you to place districts on trash desert tiles and effectively get a +1 adjacency by staffing the pyramid tile (again, low population is the goal here). The best place for it is on a flood plain so it starts with 4 food + 1 faith and grows from there.

    The game I'm currently playing I started on a very wide peninsula about 20 tiles from the nearest civ. No worries... Pitati can close the gap quickly and the horsemen that will follow can as well. My focus ended up being peaceful expansion and an mid-Classical war. The settlers plopped in place to shore up loyalty. Starting far from civs is a very safe thing on Deity and allows you to choose your entry into conflict in most cases. By Turn 110 I had settled 16 cities (Goddess of the Harvest and 2 victorious Emergencies) and captured 4 more. I planned on more warmongering but with the emergencies and the ticking clock gave me other priorities.
     
  16. liv

    liv Warlord

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    Nubia is a good civ to move up to deity or to try out deity for those who would like to do that. There is not much trick to them but to build and shoot. It makes one experience what Deity AI and deity barbarians can do.
    I think the most important thing is to be super focussed on war right away and not try to do "cool" stuff. The archers do become obsolete at some point probably around turn 80? so you need to just make maximum use of them while you can . Hope for flat to take advantage of moves. You probably should use their powerful chop to get in a campus early but on deity taking cities usually provides districts and the rest is somewhat easy. And sell luxuries. Deity AI pays well.
     
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  17. newbie2

    newbie2 Chieftain

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    The one time I wish the map would pair my starting position with a fair amount of desert, and it doesnt. when I'm playing other civs though....
     
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  18. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

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    I agree with most of the assessments of Nubia's capabilities.

    In my favourite game - 24+ other civs, Terra maps (giant or ludicrous) at epic
    or marathon pace - Nubia's archers are beautiful counters (attack and defense)
    to the other civs in Africa: Zulu, Kongo, Arabia and Egypt. Without those 4 civs
    Nubia can run rampant through city-states and anything that gets in their way
    for quite a long time. Eventually they do hit the wall when they come up against
    Genghis or some of the North and South American civs.
    As others have said, churning out archers does get very boring, and it's a
    tactic that doesn't work well against the other 4 African civs. A little more
    finesse is required there.
     
  19. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    I can't finish my game due to a major health event my brother had. I can't really focus on this game right now with his health problems.

    I'll upload the save if anyone wants to finish it. It's a slam dunk victory at this point. This civ is massively overpowered. So much so that I refuse to play them again. I doubt I'll ever play Nubia again. Sure I could go up a difficulty level, but that doesn't necessarily fix the issue. And while I find them tier 1 in terms of how powerful they are, they aren't necessarily tier 1 in terms of how fun they are to play. There are other civs I would rather play.

    General strat as mentioned is build Pitati archers and stomp on everything. They are a little map dependent, but even an isolated start you can take advantage of +20% production to districts (+40% if terrain is favorable to build the Pyramid next to your city center) to really get ahead of the curve. If you are lucky like me, in that after I finished on stomping on everyone on my continent, I then the people on the other continent discovered me, and I formed alliances with all 5 of them you will notice in the save.
     

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  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    My sentiments exactly, its a bit silly how they do not rebalance these civs well, every iteration has terribly unbalanced civs and in a multiplayer world this is a bad thing.
     
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