Civ-specific Great People

[Michael Vick]

Portugal

Scholars

Jacob de Castro Sarmento
Damião de Góis
Bartolomeu de Gusmão
André de Resende
Pedro Nunes
António Nunes Ribeiro Sanches
Tomé Pires
Garcia de Orta

Engineers

Diogo de Boitaca
Mateus Fernandes
João de Castilho
Eugénio dos Santos
Nicolau de Chanterene

Prophets

São João de Deus
Santo António de Lisboa
Santa Joana, Princesa de Portugal
Santa Isabel de Aragão
São Rosendo de Celanova
São Gonçalo de Amarante
São João de Brito

Generals

Geraldo Sem Pavor
Guilherme de Schaumburg-Lippe
António Luís de Meneses, Marquês de Marialva
Nuno Álvares Pereira
António Luís de Sousa, Marquês das Minas
Matias de Albuquerque

Artists

Luís de Camões
Manuel Maria Barbosa du Bocage
João de Barros (maybe scholar)
António Ferreira
Grão Vasco
Carlos Seixas
Vieira Portuense
Pedro de Cristo
Jorge Afonso

Spies

Pêro da Covilhã
Luís da Cunha

Merchants

Fernão Pires de Andrade
Fernão Gomes
Abraham Israel Pereyra
Lourenço Marques
António da Silva Porto
Fernão de Loronha
Nuno Tristão
Álvaro Fernandes

 

[civ_king]

I was thinking of this, and I reckoned Great Philosopher would be the way to go, as it fits in holy people as well as more secular ethical thinkers. Thus, people like Voltaire, Rousseau, Hobbes, Erasmus or Locke would have a clear fit somewhere.

How do they increase faith points? They are philosophers not holy people

 

[AbsintheRed]

How do they increase faith points? They are philosophers not holy people

Voltaire, Erasmus and a couple other philosophers were on the Great Prophet list literally for ages
I don't see it as a real problem if we keep it that way. Maybe renaming Great Prophets to Great Philosophers is a good solution
I'm against Great Mystic though, won't really work for most people currently on the list

 

[Voyelles]

How do they increase faith points? They are philosophers not holy people

I suppose the best way to contextualise this is to consider that say Voltaire's genius would have generated "faith points" if that is what his mind would have been put to. When you are choosing to settle, bulb or faith point boost a Great Person, you are in effect choosing what field to apply his genius, if you catch my drift.

 

[Voyelles]

They said it could not be done - but here is a tentative Burgundy list!


Prophet: Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, Peter the Venerable, Saint Morandus

Artist: Claus de Werve, Guillaume Dufay, Claus Sluter, Jean de Beaumetz, Jean-Baptiste Lallemand, Guiot de Dijon, Michault Taillevent

Scientist: Rodolfus Glaber, Erasmus, Jean Wauquelin

Merchant: Huguenin Jacquin, Odot Molain, Humbert de Plaine

Engineer: Jean Poncelet

General: Antoine de Toulongeon, Antoine de Vergy, John the Fearless

Spy:


Still some gaps, but it looks do-able at least!

 

[Michael Vick]

The great majority of the people we're listing as great prophets were saints, and "mystic" as well as obviously "saint" can apply to all them. I guess I forgot to mention that I am against having all of these philosopher types in the religious great person section. Voltaire can be considered an artist for his literature or a scholar for his works affiliated with the enlightenment. Both are better than having him as a "Great Prophet" because he considered himself a deist. Most of these other philosophers you want to include in these lists were probably atheists or deists as well. If you called this type of great person a "Great Philosopher" then you would need to remove all the saints and religious people and change the art, because the two concepts are incompatible IMO.

 

[Voyelles]

The great majority of the people we're listing as great prophets were saints, and "mystic" as well as obviously "saint" can apply to all them. I guess I forgot to mention that I am against having all of these philosopher types in the religious great person section. Voltaire can be considered an artist for his literature or a scholar for his works affiliated with the enlightenment. Both are better than having him as a "Great Prophet" because he considered himself a deist. Most of these other philosophers you want to include in these lists were probably atheists or deists as well. If you called this type of great person a "Great Philosopher" then you would need to remove all the saints and religious people and change the art, because the two concepts are incompatible IMO.

I would argue that judging Saints to be incompatible with the label of Philiosopher is rather missing the point, as centering itself on one particular battle of ideas during the Enlightenment. I personally read the metagaming concept of Great Prophet to be extendable to ethical thinkers and visionnaries, and that the two are not in conflict within the Philosopher label - Saints are per se philosophers as their lasting work is to inspire people towards a notion of greater good and way of relatavising mortality.
As an example, consider Saint Augustinian, Thomas Aquinas, Saint Anselm of Canterbury and any number of christian philosophers: incompatability is not the issue. Rather it is to consider what fits where best in the context of this mod, loosening some Great People headers so as to make it possible to complete smaller civilizations' lists.

 

[rrosen]

Great work Voyelles!

 

[Michael Vick]

I would argue that judging Saints to be incompatible with the label of Philiosopher is rather missing the point, as centering itself on one particular battle of ideas during the Enlightenment. I personally read the metagaming concept of Great Prophet to be extendable to ethical thinkers and visionnaries, and that the two are not in conflict within the Philosopher label - Saints are per se philosophers as their lasting work is to inspire people towards a notion of greater good and way of relatavising mortality.
As an example, consider Saint Augustinian, Thomas Aquinas, Saint Anselm of Canterbury and any number of christian philosophers: incompatability is not the issue. Rather it is to consider what fits where best in the context of this mod, loosening some Great People headers so as to make it possible to complete smaller civilizations' lists.

I think I've stumbled upon the answer in your post.

"Great Visionary"? Voltaire was a visionary. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine were visionaries. Martin Luther and John Calvin were visionaries! It's perfect.

 

[Voyelles]

I think I've stumbled upon the answer in your post.

"Great Visionary"? This applies perfectly to Saints as well as philosophers.

Interesting! The only thing to count against it would be that Visionary could refer to any kind of Great Person. Certainly to be considered though.

 

[Michael Vick]

I'm reading different dictionary definitions of "visionary". We would be taking it to mean one that sees or is characterized by uncommon views or ideas.

 

[Michael Vick]

Cordoba

Scholars

Ibn Khaldun
Ibn Rushd
Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi
Maslamah Ibn Ahmad al-Majriti
Al-Farabi
Said Al-Andalusi
Al-Zarqali
Jabir ibn Aflah
Ibn Zuhr

Engineers

Abu al-Hakam al-Kirmani
Abbas Ibn Firnas
Abu al-Ḥasan ibn
Al-Jabir
Abdallah ibn al-Ahmar

Prophets

Ibn Tumart
Abdallah ibn Yasin
Ibn Tufail
Moses ben-Maimon (Famous Rabbi)
Isaac Alfasi (Same)

Generals

Tariq ibn Ziyad
Yusuf ibn Tashfin
Yaqub al-Mansur
Abu Bakr ibn Umar

Spies

Hashashim (Refers to any of a group of Muslim assassins?)

Artists

Ibn Bajjah
Abu al-Salt
Ziryab
Judah Halevi (Hebrew poet from Toledo)
Dunash ben Labrat (Hebrew poet from Fez)
Al-Bakri
Ibn Idhari

Merchants

Ibn Battuta
Muhammad al-Idrisi

After doing this research I feel like Cordoba's UP should have been 1 great scientist every turn. I could have probably added 10 more to the scholars list, and the engineers and artists are just great scholars that dabbled in Architecture, Literature, or Music. This civ honestly had some amazing achievements.

 

[3Miro]

How about "Great Theologian", this can be applied to the religious leaders of all religions and covers both "saints" and religiously oriented philosophers.

If we want to avoid the word "scientist" as it only applies to the very end of the mod, we can use the word "great thinker" or great "philosopher". Maybe "naturalist"? Actually, scientist is probably the best.

 

[Michael Vick]

I think we already have it as "Scholar", which works for me. I like Theologian too.

 

[3Miro]

I think we already have it as "Scholar", which works for me. I like Theologian too.

+1 to Scholar.

We should use Theologian and Scholar for the Prophet and Scientist.

We can also change the "Saint" to "Write a great work of Theology", similar to the Great Work of Art. This would avoid the issue with Muslim saints.

 

[Michael Vick]

Or "Enlighten the People"

 

[AbsintheRed]

How about "Great Theologian", this can be applied to the religious leaders of all religions and covers both "saints" and religiously oriented philosophers.

We can also change the "Saint" to "Write a great work of Theology", similar to the Great Work of Art. This would avoid the issue with Muslim saints.

Or "Enlighten the People"

Agreed, I also like these

 

[3Miro]

Agreed, I also like these

I would go with Theologian, Scholar and Write a Great Work on Theology, I don't like the "Enlighten" part.

 

[merijn_v1]

IIRC, a Great Scientist is already named: "Great Scholar" in the mod. (And the scientist is a "scholar" ofcourse)

 

[Michael Vick]

The Italians

I've added the area around which they were active next to the name in case it is decided to have unique lists for each Italian Civ and not just an Italian pool. Any GPs born in Pisa or Siena were given to Genoa as Genoa usually controls those areas in the game. Any GPs born in Ferrara, Aquilea, that area of Northeastern Italy were given to Venice. Any GPs born in Central Italy in the territory of the Papal States were given to Rome. There are also separate labels for those from Milan or Florence that can become the GP list for the Lombards civ in RFCE++. I left out the Popes for the theologians, in case anybody is wondering.

Scholars

Galileo Galilei (Florence)
Panfilo Castaldi (Milan)
Maria Gaetana Agnesi (Milan)
Ulisse Aldrovandi (Milan)
Giovanni Arduino (Venice)
Tito Livio Burattini (Venice)
Giuseppe Campani (Rome)
Gerolamo Cardano (Rome)
Giovanni Domenico Cassini (Genoa)
Bonaventura Cavalieri (Milan)
Andrea Cesalpino (Florence)
Vincenzo Chiarugi (Florence)
Realdo Colombo (Venice)
Campano da Novara (Genoa)
Giovanni Dondi dell'Orologio (Venice)
Eustachio Divini (Rome)
Andrea Vesalio (Venice)
Gabriele Falloppio (Genoa)
Leonardo Fibonacci (Genoa)
Niccolò Fontana Tartaglia (Venice)
Luigi Galvani (Rome)
Francesco Maria Grimaldi (Rome)
Giovanni Battista Riccioli (Venice)
Giovanni Girolamo Saccheri (Genoa)
Alessandro Volta (Milan)
Niccolò Zucchi (Milan)

Engineers

Leonardo da Vinci (Rome/Florence)
Guglielmo Agnelli (Pisa)
Pietro Baseggio (Venice)
Donato Bramante (Rome)
Filippo Brunelleschi (Florence)
Giuliano da Sangallo (Florence)
Andrea Palladio (Venice)
Michele Sanmicheli (Venice)
Domenico Contarini (Venice)
Carlo Maderno (Rome)

Theologians

San Francesco d'Assisi (Rome)
San Filippo Neri (Florence)
Jacopo da Varazze (Genoa)
San Pier Damiani (Rome)
San Benedetto da Norcia (Rome)
San Romualdo (Venice)
Giovanni Gualberto (Florence)
San Roberto Bellarmino (Rome)
San Bernardino da Siena (Genoa)
San Carlo Borromeo (Milan)
Santa Caterina da Siena (Genoa)
Santa Rita da Cascia (Rome)
Sant'Angela Merici (Venice)
San Gerardo Sagredo (Venice)
San Bernardo Tolomei (Genoa)
Girolamo Savonarola (Florence)

Generals

Andrea Doria (Genoa)
Cesare Borgia (Rome)
Bartolomeo Colleoni (Venice)
Federico da Montefeltro (Rome)
Giovanni dalle Bande Nere (Florence)
Francesco Sforza (Milan)
Ottavio Piccolomini (Florence)

Spies (Pool)

Alessandro Cagliostro
Giacomo Casanova? (he was an "adventurer" )

Artists

Michelangelo (Rome/Florence)
Andrea Gabrieli (Venice)
Raffaello (Rome)
Donatello (Florence)
Antonio Vivaldi (Venice)
Giotto (Florence)
Leon Battista Alberti (Genoa)
Sandro Botticelli (Florence)
Andrea del Castagno (Florence)
Tintoretto (Venice)
Giovanni Battista Piranesi (Rome)
Pinturicchio (Rome)
Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (Rome)
Federico Barocci (Rome)
Girolamo Frescobaldi (Rome)
Baldassare Galuppi (Venice)
Giovanni Battista Sammartini (Milan)
Giulio Romano (Genoa)
Orazio Gentileschi (Genoa)
Duccio (Genoa)
Palma Giovane (Venice)
Giovanni Bellini (Venice)
Cigoli (Florence)
Caravaggio (Genoa)

Merchants

Marco Polo (Venice)
Giovanni di Bicci de' Medici (Florence)
Amerigo Vespucci (Florence)
Giovanni da Verrazzano (Florence)
Antonio de Noli (Genoa)
Giovanni Caboto (Genoa)
Henri de Tonti (Rome)
Alessandro Malaspina (Genoa)
Antonio Pigafetta (Venice)
Giovanni da Pian del Carpine (Rome)
Antonio Benedetto Carpano (Milan)
Francesco di Marco Datini (Florence)
Filippo Mazzei (Florence)
Francesco Morosini (Venice)