Civ Total War instead of Civ General

[Danielos]

While I like the idea that Civ 5 is inspired by the awesome Panzer General series, I think a modern 2010 game really should glance towards the Total War series instead. Then we could keep our usual large armies and have the tactics restriced to the real-time tactical battlefield map.

Our computers should be powerful enough to handle a Civilization Total War now, so there is really no excuse left for the exclusion of a real tactical battle-engine.

 

[CornPlanter]

I'd hate it. Never liked this style, different maps for tactics and strategy. When I'm in the mood of managing large empire, I'm usually not into the microing battles which takes the same amount of real life time as it just took to run through 200 years without battles. In games like this, I usually auto-resolve battles whenever possible. And vice versa, when I'm into tactics I dont like managing Empire.

But that's just me.

 

[Ahriman]

Civ is not a tactical combat simulator. Leave that for the Total War games.

If you try and do everything, you'll end up doing none of it well. Each Total War game aims at a narrow genre, and even then they keep screwing up (ETW was a mess).

 

[J-man]

Would slow the game down way too much. Besides, you wage a lot of battles in civ and after a while it would get boring.

 

[Puupertti Ruma]

To add to all other critiques, it wouldn't be Civ. Civilization series has a lot of history, and Firaxis is not ever going to throw that away.

Plus, it would take millions of working hours on a time span of civ. You'dd have to do indiviual AI's for every era and both to strat and tac maps. And tac map strategy is pretty hard to do, just look at the total war series...

 

[Dale]

Panzer General >> Total War

 

[Chimera1804]

It would take too long, quite simply. Besides, how would total war cope with WW1 or WW2 style battles?

Personally, I think that call to power had it just right when it came to combat. Have stacks but with a relatively low hard cap (I think it was 9). The game then sorts your "regiments" out into 2 or 3 lines with ranged units behind and fights it out in several rounds. The whole battle only lasts a turn but gives you a great deal of satisfaction.

Yeah, CtP definitely had the right idea when it came to warfare. Personally I think that would make for a good alternate to the two extremes (SoD or 1UPH)...

While have real-time battles might be interesting at first, like said by others it would get boring after a while.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I would really love to have a Total War style of combat, with tactical decisions and all that (and if they somehow manage to pull it off for modern warfare)...

But firstly, it'd just take way too long (I'm not going to fight a battle every time I find a little barbarian warrior, too much time), and, secondly, it'd just be really hard to implement. I mean in theory it would be just spectacular and amazing, but I think in reality it'd be pretty hard to do.

 

[thungrim]

To pull off "Total War" style combat would be a herculean undertaking. The Civ series abstracts combat and focuses on empire management, where as the Total War series abstracts empire management and focuses on combat. Specifically, it focuses on only one era of combat.

To pull it off, Civ would have to essentially build several different stand alone games.
- A fully fleshed out empire management game (ie. "Civ")
- A fully fleshed out total war engine for every era of combat (lets lowball it at say 5 different eras)

Its fun to think about, but I'd wager its a practical impossibility.

 

[Earthling]

ZOMG GUYZ.

I HAS TEH most awesome idea.

In developing the game "Civilization V" I've discovered another, older series of games that it would be great to base some ideas off of. Wait for it:

Civ V should be based off of the established successful, older games Civilization, Civilization II, Civilization III, and Civiliziation IV! Wouldn't that be amazing? Having similar game mechanics, the quintessential 4X game that takes players throughout human history!

Seriously, while not knocking other series, if you want to play Total War, or Panzer General, play those games. Civilization should remain a civilization game, not turn into a clone of these other games. I'm am/would be excited about a new engine, AI, hex map, new things added to the game in general; copying another game is not one of those things.

 

[thungrim]

Civ V should be based off of the established successful, older games Civilization, Civilization II, Civilization III, and Civiliziation IV! Wouldn't that be amazing? Having similar game mechanics, the quintessential 4X game that takes players throughout human history!

<cackle giggle snort>

 

[Opera]

Ugh, no real time... Civilization games equal turn-based games to me, nothing real time! Die real time!

 

[blade117]

*procceds to stab clock*

 

[Dale]

*starts stabbing everything and everyone around me *

Oh hang on, did you say real life or real time? Woops.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I'm with you Chimera. The one thing that CtP definitely got right was the combat system. Though I would hope that CivV would make a few small improvements.

Aussie.

 

[Ellestar]

If you want off-map tactical battles (turn-based) in a 4X game, try oncoming Elemental: War of Magic. That's basically a new version of Master of Magic, but completely reworked to a new modern standarts, with improvements from Stardock (creators of renown Galactic Civilizations series). If you preorder, you'll get in next beta stage automatically too, as a bonus.

But i think Civ 5 approach to combat is better. Off-map tactical battles take too much time and IMHO they're less "tactical" than wargame-style tactics on a main planetary map.

 

[Camikaze]

While I like the idea that Civ 5 is inspired by the awesome Panzer General series, I think a modern 2010 game really should glance towards the Total War series instead. Then we could keep our usual large armies and have the tactics restriced to the real-time tactical battlefield map.

Our computers should be powerful enough to handle a Civilization Total War now, so there is really no excuse left for the exclusion of a real tactical battle-engine.

In the kindest possible way, I will direct you towards the Total War section of the forum. If you want to play Total War, play Total War.

And yes, there is an excuse not to include real-time tactical battles. A big excuse. This is Civ, not Total War. Civ is an empire management strategy game, nor a real-time tactical warfare game. Total War is the game that caters for your desire for that, and from what I hear, it does a fine job in that catering. But Civ V should be the next game in the Civ series, not the next game in the Total War series.

Tactics &#8800; Civ

 

[spammikone]

While I like the idea that Civ 5 is inspired by the awesome Panzer General series, I think a modern 2010 game really should glance towards the Total War series instead. Then we could keep our usual large armies and have the tactics restriced to the real-time tactical battlefield map.

Our computers should be powerful enough to handle a Civilization Total War now, so there is really no excuse left for the exclusion of a real tactical battle-engine.

1. You do realise the units are only an abstraction? I know the screenshot shows 12 men in one unit, but don't take it literally. You do realise game designing is creative work? They can put a giant dildo on the map and label it "this represents one billion archers" - so there - you have now your usual large army.

2. Panzer General can have larger armies than any TW. In terms of men and units. Pretty good from a turn-based stone age crappy looking 2d game ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

3. The genre of real-time tactics predates to mid-90's with games like SotHR & Close Combat. TW series is older than Civ 3. lol @ "computers should be powerful enough now"

4. I'm suprised you didn't notice this, but those have quite different gameplay. FPS Civ next?

5. FPS Civ next of course, because that's modern thing to do with our powerful computers ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

[hewhoknowsall]

To do this would be a virtual impossibility, but I wonder whether or not many of you have actually tried playing Total War games. Contrary to many peoples' rants, they are really fun IMO.

 

[cybrxkhan]

The Total War series does cater to both strategy and tactics; it isn't just fighting one battle after another. In some ways, it is a lot better than civ when it comes to empire management... But in other ways it isn't civ either. It is really fun, but still a different game, so, yeah.

Again, I really think a "Civilization: Total War", where aspects of both games would be merged, would be the GREATEST STRATEGY GAME EVER... But it's pretty much impossible to do.