Civ VI Civ and City-State Symbology

Great work, DJ_Tanner. I like that City-States have more personality now, down to the (seemingly well-researched) icons, and the unique suzerain bonuses.

Omega doesn't mean "great". It means "big O" (in contrast to the "small O", Omicron).

Wow, I never realised that before! Thanks.
 
Nice job !
 
The icon for Hattusa is not a chariot wheel, it's a Hattic (pre-Hittite culture, founders of the city) religious standard representing the sun (or the cosmos).

This is the one I am most unsure of. Initially I did think it was a sun disk, however, something kept bothering me about it so I reviewed them quite a few times before I decided that chariot wheel just fits better.

First there is small cross beam, this is what led me to think it was a sun disk as it doesn't fit well with the chariot wheel design. However, there is only one crossing bar and the sun disk typically features this cross thatched design as a major feature, it is not major in the icon used.

Next, there is the central 'hub'. There are some designs of sun disks that utilize central disks, circles from where the lines originate. Yet these are typically used in multiples fitted all around the disk. From a wheel design there is only one the hub in the middle of the wheel from where all the spokes originate.

For me the key item was the prominence of the lines themselves. The icon has the four cardinal lines. These four are much thicker than the other lines. This is key design feature that is absent from all sun disk designs. In those all lines are of equal weight. However, in chariot wheels the major and minor spoke is a design feature.

Of additional note, they are also a scientific CS that provides a more military bonus. The chariot does represent this a bit better. As they were not only proficient with using the chariot but also made great innovations to it. Probably not that relevant, but its a thing.

Again this is my interpretation of the symbol provided. I just wanted to point out why I picked chariot wheel and why I think it is the better fit for symbol presented.
 
Yes, I think the "federal eagle" (Bundesadler) would be a better symbol:



But I the iron cross is okay for me, too.

I guess eagles are prime real estate for civilisation icons, so they try to use it the least they could. Just in the revealed civs, we already have Russia and Poland who are highly likely to get eagles, and don't really have other symbols that could fit. And there are only so many ways to draw an eagle that's different from other eagles in the small icon size.
 
indeed a nice job! the greek symbol was posted somewhere in the Pericles-thread... ;)

edit: here:

*snip*
Good find. I agree with the sentiment, though, having omega as symbol is a bit weird. Personally, I'd preferred the Owl of Athena, seeing how it's still used on euro coins and fits Pericles very well.

I might actually try and mod that and the Bundesadler for Germany in, call it the "Birds of Civilisation" mod. :D
 
indeed a nice job! the greek symbol was posted somewhere in the Pericles-thread... ;)

edit: here:


Yeah, I saw it was there, which is how I came up with the description. I just left the icon blank waiting for Arioch's site to put it up, that way the icon would be uniform with the rest.
 
Personally, I believe that the Norwegian lion, i.e. this;



would've been a better choice for Norway's symbol. But I'll excuse the choice of the valknut, as it was found on the Oseberg ship, after all.
 
This is the one I am most unsure of. Initially I did think it was a sun disk, however, something kept bothering me about it so I reviewed them quite a few times before I decided that chariot wheel just fits better.

First there is small cross beam, this is what led me to think it was a sun disk as it doesn't fit well with the chariot wheel design. However, there is only one crossing bar and the sun disk typically features this cross thatched design as a major feature, it is not major in the icon used. [...]

Exactly, the cross bars (connecting the "spokes") serve no purpose in a chariot wheel, and they aren't part of how the Hittites depicted their own chariot wheels either. They are part of the solar icon. Granted, the CS icon is more simplified in design than the original artefact, but practically all of the icons are simplified compared to the source materials.

It's a Hattic sun disk, not a wheel. Saying it's a wheel because it kinda looks like one and that it better suits the "theme" of the CS isn't really relevant because the icons represent the cities/cultures themselves, not the themes.
 
Good find. I agree with the sentiment, though, having omega as symbol is a bit weird. Personally, I'd preferred the Owl of Athena, seeing how it's still used on euro coins and fits Pericles very well.

I might actually try and mod that and the Bundesadler for Germany in, call it the "Birds of Civilisation" mod. :D

Yeah, the Omega for Greece is so bland/generic/meaningless. Giving Pericles an owl and Gorgo a lambda would make the most sense. If they only want one symbol for both leaders/all of Greece, the gorgoneion would work best as both distinctive and used throughout all of the Greek states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgoneion
 
Civilizations:

Spoiler :
America – The shield comes from the coat of arms of the United States. Within the shield there are stars and stripes, a nickname for the American flag, where the stars represent the states and the stripes the original colonies. Inside the heraldry the stripes come up to support the chief (containing the stars) to symbolize the states who stand to support the Congress matching the motor of the United States “E pluribus unum” (Out of many, one).

Aztecs – The double-headed serpent comes from a turquoise mosaic. The mosaic is in the British Museum and is thought to be one of the gifts from Moctezuma II to Hernan Cortes. The serpent was an important symbol to the Aztecs. It was likely a symbol of rebirth due to its ability to shed its old skin and appear reborn. Additionally, the serpent was key to the pantheon of gods as many had serpent-like qualities, most notably the extremely important feathered serpent god Quetzalcoatl.

Brazil – The symbol comes directly from the Brazilian flag. The design is a green field with a gold diamond. The green represented the House of Braganza of Pedro I and the gold the House of Habsburg of Empress Maria Leopoldina (Pedro’s wife). Within the gold diamond is a disk (blue on the actual flag) that contains stars positioned to reflect the sky of Rio de Janerio on November 15, 1889.

China – The dragon was frequently used by the Emperor of China as a symbol of imperial power. During the Qing dynasty the national flag featured the Azure Dragon. Additionally, it was a large part of Chinese mythology and folklore. The dragon was a powerful creature and a symbol of power, strength, and good luck and it remains part of the Chinese zodiac. In the West the dragon is a national emblem of China.

Egypt – The eye is the Wedjat (the green one) now called The Eye of Horus. The importance of the eye comes from a story when Set and Horus fought over the throne after Osiris’s death. During the fight Set gouged out Horus’s eye. Horus had the eye restored and then offered it to Osiris in hopes of restoring his life. The eye became to symbolize sacrifice, healing, restoration, and protection.

England – The crown is a popular symbol of the monarchy. The crown is a stylized version of St. Edward’s Crown which is one of the English Crown Jewels. Originally it belonged to Edward the Confessor but was sold during the English Civil War in 1642. The current version was restored in 1661. It is one of the senior Crown Jewels and is often regarded as the official coronation crown.

France – The fleur-de-lis is a stylized version of a lily. It has been used all over Europe but has a particular association with the French monarchy. Legend states that Frankish monarch Clovis I was anointed with oil from the lily. Therefore, the fleur-de-lis represents the divine authority given to the ruler of France.

Germany –The Iron Cross is a top military decoration used in Germany. The cross comes from the Black Cross of the Teutonic Order. From there it became established as the emblem of the Prussian and later German army. The Iron Cross then became an award for the Prussian and German military.

[No image] Greece – The Capital letter Omega. It is the last letter in the 24 letter Greek alphabet. It translates to mean “great o”. Symbolically it is used to denote the last, end, or ultimate limit In a set. Typically it is used in contrast to alpha, the beginning.

Japan – A stylized version of the Oda clan kamon. A kamon is the emblem used by different family or clans in Japan, similar to a coat of arms. The (ka)mon is likely a flowering quince. It is somewhat similar to the Imperial kamon, and national emblem, a stylized chrysanthemum.

Kongo – A stylized version of a BaKongo ritual mask. The Kongo masks were used for important funerals, special initiation ceremonies, and for judgment court. Ritual masks were usually a Nkisi, or an object that contains spiritual power or that a spirit inhabits. People who exhibit exceptional human powers such as banganga, herbalists/healers, are believed to be a result of communing with the dead. A Nkisi was generally classified as “of the above” relating to sky, rain, and thunderstorms or “of the below” relating to earth and water.

Norway – Three interlocked triangles is called the valknut. It is thought to symbolize Odin’s power to bind and unbind. The term is a modern usage for the symbol and the original name is unknown. The symbol was initially found on the Tangelgarda stone, a decorated stone, and the Oseberg ship, a Norwegian burial ship.

Scythia – A stag holds a special importance to the Scythian people and may have been the crest of an important family. Unique to Scythian culture the stag is depicted with looped antlers. Additionally, the legs are tucked under it to give the impression of speed. These were found as the central ornament for shields and on burial sites.

Spain – The bull has been held in high regard by a multitude of cultures and typically represents courage and strength. In Spain, the bull, notably the Osborne bull, has become the unofficial symbol of the country. There are 91 large black silhouetted bulls that ‘watch’ over the roads and countryside. These initially were part of an advertising campaign but due to changing laws about advertisements were slated to be torn down; public outcry instead saw the country paint them all black as they had gained “aesthetic or cultural significance”.

Nice work but, you do realize some of these are from Civ V right? not VI. For example, Oda is in Civ V, that's his symbol there. You need to look into the hojo symbol, which is like this: http://www.honga.net/totalwar/shogun2/images/shogun2/flags/hojo/mon_256.png
 
Lisbon – Four wavy (horizontal zigzag) lines denote water and are found under a ship in the symbol of Lisbon. The symbol has been used in many different cultures, of note it is found in Egyptian hieroglyphics and is the zodiac symbol for Aquarius. Lisbon sits on the Atlantic Ocean and the mouth of the Tagus River making it an extremely important port city and as such is deeply connected to the water.

Man, I find this one to be so incredibly bland for Lisbon. Sure, it can be traced to the Coat of Arms of Lisbon, but if that's what they wanted, I feel this symbol, a simplification of the coat of arms, would make much more sense. It's a rather modern symbol, used nowadays by Lisbon's Town Hall, but's a very obvious simplification of the original coat of arms, which dates way back.
Or, alternatively, they could just do the same as Stockholm and use Civ V's icon for Portugal - that'd be great too.

I guess when Portugal is added as a full civilization, they can reuse the waves for any other seaside City-State to replace Lisbon, which is nice for them. But, then again, it just shows how generic the waves are as a symbol. Either way, it's serviceable, but better choices could be made.

Yes, I think the "federal eagle" (Bundesadler) would be a better symbol:
*snip*
But I the iron cross is okay for me, too.

Personally, I believe that the Norwegian lion, i.e. this;
*snip*
would've been a better choice for Norway's symbol. But I'll excuse the choice of the valknut, as it was found on the Oseberg ship, after all.

The thing with eagles and lions is that they were so overused in European (and some not European) Coat of Arms and/or Flags, and there's so many European civilizations, that one must be careful when choosing one of them as the symbol.
In Civ V, we ended up with three very similar eagles, and four lions (two similar on the ground looking to the left, and two similar with their front paws in the air). And this was, I believe, with some restraint from the developers from using these animals as symbols, otherwise we could have had many more. When the icons are there to easily distinguish different civilizations, having very similar looking ones (specially when small) would defeat their purpose.
Also, I disagree with the choice of the lion for Norway, since this Norway civilization is very focused on the Viking era of the nation, during which this coat of arms was not yet in use. It'd be a serviceable, maybe even good, choice if Norway, as a civ, represented the entire history of the nation, but when it's so focused on a specific time frame, using symbols from outside that time frame is counter-intuitive.

It is nice to see that city states have their own symbols. But this one seems wrong. The crosses should be the same size and be white. Also, more often you will see them arranged vertically.
*snip*

As for the color, forget it - all City States will be colored according to their type. So all mercantile CS will be gold, all military CS will be red, and so on.
As for the symbol, I'm guessing they took the horizontal layout to represent the Flag of Amsterdam, though I agree the vertical layout would be more historically significant.
Also, I think they preferred the horizontal layout to better fit the CS banner in-game. Same goes for making one cross bigger. Also to avoid having Amsterdam being the XXX City-State. :lol:

Nice work but, you do realize some of these are from Civ V right? not VI. For example, Oda is in Civ V, that's his symbol there. You need to look into the hojo symbol, which is like this: http://www.honga.net/totalwar/shogun2/images/shogun2/flags/hojo/mon_256.png

Nope, as far as we know, Japan does have the same symbol in Civ VI as it did in Civ V, even if it is now ruled by Hojo Tokimune.
Weird choice, given the leader. :dunno: I also think it should be changed, but not necessarily to the Hojo Clan's symbol - who's to say Oda Nobunaga or Tokugawa won't be added as a second leader down the line? The best choice would be one that could represent all of Japan - specially since this game tries to represent Japan's history as a whole (Hojo, Samurai, Meiji Restoration, Electronics Factory), instead of just a specific era (like, say, the Sengoku period).
 
Lions are like eagles: very popular with designers of country or city symbols. It is probably smart to pick something else if possible, thereby saving the animal for when there really is no other option.

shyPiano said:
Also, I disagree with the choice of the lion for Norway, since this Norway civilization is very focused on the Viking era of the nation, during which this coat of arms was not yet in use. It'd be a serviceable, maybe even good, choice if Norway, as a civ, represented the entire history of the nation, but when it's so focused on a specific time frame, using symbols from outside that time frame is counter-intuitive.

Fair enough. After all, there's a reason why the interlocked mead horns, that IIRC were found on the Jelling stones, were chosen as Denmark's symbol in Civ 5.
 
This would be best for Japan:


The imperial seal which is also on all Japanese passports. A 18 petal chrysanthemum which earlier was illegal for any job emperor to wear.
 
Nice work but, you do realize some of these are from Civ V right? not VI. For example, Oda is in Civ V, that's his symbol there. You need to look into the hojo symbol, which is like this: http://www.honga.net/totalwar/shogun2/images/shogun2/flags/hojo/mon_256.png

The Hojo symbol is also the inspiration for the Triforce in the Legend of Zelda series (as they are similar in design).

Believe it or not, when Hojo was first revealed, some Civ fans made a connection with the Zelda games.

If Japan ends up having the Hojo symbol, some would make jokes about Japan being Hyrule, which is the location of most Zelda games.
 
As for the color, forget it - all City States will be colored according to their type. So all mercantile CS will be gold, all military CS will be red, and so on.
As for the symbol, I'm guessing they took the horizontal layout to represent the Flag of Amsterdam, though I agree the vertical layout would be more historically significant.
Also, I think they preferred the horizontal layout to better fit the CS banner in-game. Same goes for making one cross bigger. Also to avoid having Amsterdam being the XXX City-State. :lol:

That seems to be a sensible explanation. But if the colour can't be helped, still they could make the crosses a bit fatter, the same size and arrange them vertically, I think. The vertical layout will cause less association with other XXX-meanings.
 
Personally, I believe that the Norwegian lion, i.e. this;



would've been a better choice for Norway's symbol. But I'll excuse the choice of the valknut, as it was found on the Oseberg ship, after all.

But the Valknut would have be a very good religious symbol for the Nordic pantheon.

Lions are like eagles: very popular with designers of country or city symbols. It is probably smart to pick something else if possible, thereby saving the animal for when there really is no other option.

Qould be fun to have a mod that changes most of the Civs and CS symbols by a lion or eagle symbol they used ar some moment in history, the map would be very confusing.
 
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