El Castellano
Warlord
What did that poor ram do to deserve that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Golden_Fleece
Felipe II in civ 6 has a collar with the Golden Fleece.
What did that poor ram do to deserve that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Golden_Fleece
Felipe II in civ 6 has a collar with the Golden Fleece.
Eh. Technically that's the exact definition of the letter, but there's a lot of added symbology to that symbol. As the last letter of the Greek alphabet, it is often used as a symbol of the ultimate or the highest, such as the Bible referring to the "Alpha and Omega".
Personally, though, I like the idea of using an olive branch for Greece. I drew up a while ago what I feel to be the best final list of Civs with their logos, and while I know they're not the best and some (not even me) may not agree with all my choice of symbols, I think the Greek one came out good.
Eh. Given the country's history with bullfighting, the iconic bull from Picasso's Guernica, and the Osborne Bull, I think it's a perfectly cromulent icon. Yeah, the Osborne thing may have been an advertisement, but it became such a big part of Spanish culture that the people actually found a way of keeping them when they were threatened. Of course, there may be better symbols, but it's perfectly acceptible.
Why does Preslav's symbol resemble a sea turtle? Is it a historical symbol for the Bulgarian empire?
There was a bug where Preslav's and Nan Madol's icons were reversed. Preslav's has been fixed in the most recent livestream.
Other than the fact I'm also pretty sure the symbol for Hattusas is a simplified version of the Sun Disk, this list is absolutely fantastic - thank you for making it DJ Tanner!
Looking at the current list I'm expecting Arabia and Russia will probably have the same colours and symbols as they did in Civ V (Arabia's is basically a given, and with Germany using the Iron Cross again it leaves Russia open to use the Romanov Eagle and the yellow/black colour scheme). The only one I'm not sure about is Sumeria. I'm not sure they'll use the bull head they had in V with Spain's symbol being somewhat similar.
My half-Puerto Rican side thinks bulls when Spain comes to mind. Bulls & mass murderers, be it Colón or Franco. That being said, symbols should be used by the appropriate culture in order for it to represent them. Perhaps a castle to represent Castilla. I take issue with the waves for Lisbon because it's on the Spanish flag as well. They could have used the armillary sphere or a dragon.
My half-Puerto Rican side thinks bulls when Spain comes to mind. Bulls & mass murderers, be it Colón or Franco.
Although the Crown of Castile is what most people think of Spain culturally and historically (it was the one that colonised America, sent the "Conquistadors", founded first the Inquisition and so on...), at the times of Philip II the Crown of Aragon and its countries was the other half of the Spanish Monarchy in the Iberian Peninsula. So the Castle, wouldn't really represent it.
As I said before, the Burgundy Cross would make more sense, as was the official flag of the Spanish Empire (and it's easy to add as an icon). Besides in most of the Crown of Aragon there was no wide tradition of bullfighting, to the point that it's forbidden in some of its territories nowadays, for instance Catalonia.
I really think that using the bull for Spain is a really huge mistake due to the political loaded implications it has (basically nowadays the bull represents a certain political view of Spain, not the most democratic one).
You got this mostly right, but a couple of corrections:Buenos Aires The sun symbol is the Sun of May. The Sun of May is the national emblem of Argentina and Uruguay and appears on both countries flags. It is in reference to the May Revolution marking their independence from the Spanish Empire.
Regarding Colón and call him genocidal comes from the antiSpanishness.
Regarding the Castle, yes, it is a symbol of Castile, but somehow the castle is for Spain as fleur de lis is for France: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heráldica_de_Castilla#Propagaci.C3.B3n
Regarding banned bullfighting in Catalonia and other regions, it is for ideological reasons (nationalists, animalistic, etc).
About what the bull is the symbol of the extreme right in Spain, in Spain the far right has no representation, no influence no anything, and hardly anyone sees it as a symbol of extreme right. The bull is a tourist symbol since late 20th century, there is no getting around it: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neofascismo_en_España
The Native American Spanish genocide is debatable. It would take a long post, as there's a strong debate in the Anthropology faculties, what is sure is that the Spanish colonisation provoked more than a million native deaths. Also sure is that Columbus himself wasn't a mass murderer, only a merely "gold-digger" explorer, as when he died he still thought that he had been in the Eastern Indias, not in America.
Second subject, Franco's regime was the culprit of a mass killing state-organised campaign after the Spanish Civil War, the numbers are still not clear as archaeologist find new reminds every year, so far dozens of thousands. Unlike for instance the Republican gov, that although in its territories existed a lot of random murders, were not actually organised by the gov. I actually researched some of them.
As I said before its due to different culture and historical tradition, the countries of the Crown of Aragon were really distinct from the Crown of Castile, although when the first was abolished with the 1705-1716 New Plants decrees there was a state-organised "Castilinization" of the annexed territories (although Castile also lost some institutions during that period).
I'm afraid that point is not debatable, I suggest you to watch some España 2000 or Democracia Nacional parades, or the Ultra-Sur hooligans.
BTW the fact that in Spain has no far right representation is a bit wrong. You just have to check who founded the ruling party (Partido Popular - Alianza Popular), one of the dictator's minister. Spain doesn't really need a far right party because many far right voters see the Partido Popular as the one that shares their extremist views.
You may say that is something of the past, but then nowadays you have acting ministers like Jorge Fernandez Díaz that goes to "inspire" himself in the Dictator's Tomb, El Valle de los Caídos (yeah the Spanish dictator has a huge monumental tomb maintained by the Spanish taxpayers). And the acting Spanish Gov party voted to keep funding the dictator's foundation.
In any case point being that IMHO the choice of the bull as symbol of the Spain Civ is a really poor one.
Not if in the end you will know more about Spain than a Spanish.
The most Native Americans were already killing each other before it reached Spain, and most of those who died after the arrival of the Spaniards was by epidemics of smallpox, measles, typhoid, influenza, ....
I did not say that Francoism not kill people or if no ideological persecution, which of course there were them, I said that there is no clear and official opinion on whether or not it was genocide.
The Spanish culture is the culture resulting from mixing the Iberian cultures, it is not the imposition of the culture of Castile to other territories.
1 PP is a conservative party, which can be equated to any conservative party in Europe.
6 The majority of people in Spain does not relate the bull with the far right is what I said before.
I agree that the bull is not a good symbol for Spain in civ 6.
I hope this time Poland gets the white eagle or some kind of different symbol like hussars wings or something. The black eagle in Civ 5 was a F- disgrace. I bet it's going to be a lot of hate because of Jadwiga herself so there is no need for a total sheetstorm because Firaxis cannot spend 5 mins to make a proper icon Also replacing Winged Hussars as UU is not an option.
Hm? What's the issue? It was the Polish eagle in the last game. Is that not a proper icon?
It wasn't only about the color. It was more about the fact it brings bad connotations / memories (partitions of Poland and Nazis). Imagine this: you are a Londoner and let's say you have a coat of arms with Spitfire over a blue sky yet in the Civilization you get Heinkel He 111 dropping bombs instead. It's something like that. I guess you wouldn't feel ok with it, right?But it was black, and Polish Eagle is white (it happens sometimes: now spanish bulls are yellow ). Back to Civ V and Poland. I think they should have switched colors with Austria. It was strange to have both them in game, Austria using a White Eagle, and Poland a Black one.
Just for fun
Spoiler :Austria _______________________________________ Poland
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