Civ4 Finnish translation

Haa! Unbelievable, I found IT.
I was a bit lucky too to find the error that early, it could have taken more time.

And the thing is very odd. First of all, there was indeed only one problem in that whole file (...buildingprojects.xml). It was in the description of "National Epic", but I wasn't able to identify it. When I found out it was there, I tried dozens of times to exactly identify problem: I removed ääs and öös, I played a lot about different styles making paragraphs, etc, etc, but nothing helped.
Only when I wrote the description again by hand to new file, it worked! It must be some very odd bug...

I will try to do the same with another error-file...
 
katapultti said:
Link in your site is not working right now. No permissions.
But where was that letter Š :confused::confused:

I am very happy you give a reasonable explanation and made solution :goodjob:
Click to expand...

Another link (toisiopalvelin) is working, I'll check the another as soon as possible.

Š was in GorbatŠov, TŠingis and Šaheesomething, a Persian epic.
 
Kahkonen said:
Š was in GorbatŠov, TŠingis and Šaheesomething, a Persian epic.
Click to expand...

Aa, okay. My text editor did not even show that first letter of the word Šaahnaame, it was only "aahnaame" :)

I tested your files, and now the file "...buildingsprojects.xml" is okay! Errors still came from file "...civleaders.xml" but that was what we expected, was it not?
 
Kahkonen said:
"Olet kouluttanut yksikön kasakka kaupungissa Lontoo"
Click to expand...
"Lontoo on kouluttanut yksikön kasakka"

or by taking some distance to the original text:
tai hieman poiketen alkuperäistekstistä:

"Lontoo ilmoittaa: Kasakka on koulutettu ja valmis toimintaan"

Basically if you avoid translating "you have..." to Finnish you can make many things a lot simpler.
Asioista saa aika paljon helpompia ja sujuvampiakin välttämällä sinämuotojen yliviljelyä :)

Following that (just for an example):
Ja tätä noudattaen (ihan vain esimerkin vuoksi):

"Yksikkösi jousimies on tuhonnut vastustajan yksikön sotanorsu"

-> "Jousimies ilmoittaa: Sotanorsu on tuhottu"


Personally I think it is good to use various methods when doing translations, now it seems you've used a bit too much the same method. It is also too easy to follow a certain pattern, resulting in Finglish. As you can see from these translations I avoid following the original pattern of the text and instead concentrate on just bringing out the content not caring whether I use words of the English text or not.
Minusta kääntäessä on hyvä käyttää monia eri tapoja, tähän mennessä olet käyttänyt ehkä vähän liikaa samaa temppua. On myös aika vaikeaa poiketa vaikkapa alkuperäisistä sanajärjestyksistä, jolloin päätyy anglismiin. Kuten näistä käännöksistä näkee, niin välttelen samaa sanajärjestystä ja keskityn vain sisällön esilletuomiseen uusin sanoin.


Joo, muutama pelikin on tullut käännettyä, joskaan ei ihan Civ4:n mittakaavassa olevia. Hienoa että tämmöiseen olet nähnyt vaivaa :)
 
To MERRI:
I see your point, and perhaps we should keep that in mind for future.
But personally I think these are not so important things and it would be pretty useless to change all things like that. Your forms are better, but current forms are good too.

Except if someone disagrees me and have interest to do that. Anything that make translation better is welcome, but everyone have their priority list.

To KAHKONEN:
Is the reason that some wonders are written with big capital letter, and some few without, the separation to "erisnimet" and "yleisnimet"? It seems pretty odd, but perhaps you have thought that. For example "pyramidit" and "sankarieepos", but "Eremitaasi" and "Hagia Sofia".

I have some real error-reports too (in finnish):
- Versaillesin kuvauksesta: "...Vertailun vuoksi Suomen vuoden 2006 arvioitu budjetti on n. 40 miljardia euroa, josta kuusi prosenttia on 132 biljoonaa dollaria..." kuusi prosenttiahan on 2,4 miljardia euroa, joka taas dollareina on mitä on nykykurssin mukaan, mutta ei ainakaan tuon verran eikä edes jos biljoonan muuttaa miljoonaksi. En näe mitään syytä miksi tuo dollari pitäisi edes mainita.
- Kun aloittaa pelin myöhemmältä ajalta, niin melko alussa tulee ilmoitus jotenkin näin: "You probably want to see some civic options available to you". Nyt se on käännetty: "Saatat haluta tarkastella eri vaihtoehtoja" joka ei oikein kerro oleellista asiaa. Olisiko "...hallitusmuotovaihtoehtoja" tai "...vaihtoehtoja hallitusmuodoksi" tai jotain mutta sellaista?
 
katapultti said:
To MERRI:
I see your point, and perhaps we should keep that in mind for future.
But personally I think these are not so important things and it would be pretty useless to change all things like that. Your forms are better, but current forms are good too.
Click to expand...

However, I will check them and change. Thanks, Meriadoc!

katapultti said:
To KAHKONEN:
Is the reason that some wonders are written with big capital letter, and some few without, the separation to "erisnimet" and "yleisnimet"? It seems pretty odd, but perhaps you have thought that. For example "pyramidit" and "sankarieepos", but "Eremitaasi" and "Hagia Sofia".
Click to expand...

Well, it is a bit odd (because the game alphabetizes them wrong), but it is intentional. I like to see "Olet rakennuttanut majakan" rather than: "Olet rakennuttanut Majakan". (well, if you have infinite time, you can make it so that it is capital letter in lists...)

katapultti said:
I have some real error-reports too (in finnish):
- Versaillesin kuvauksesta: "...Vertailun vuoksi Suomen vuoden 2006 arvioitu budjetti on n. 40 miljardia euroa, josta kuusi prosenttia on 132 biljoonaa dollaria..." kuusi prosenttiahan on 2,4 miljardia euroa, joka taas dollareina on mitä on nykykurssin mukaan, mutta ei ainakaan tuon verran eikä edes jos biljoonan muuttaa miljoonaksi. En näe mitään syytä miksi tuo dollari pitäisi edes mainita.
- Kun aloittaa pelin myöhemmältä ajalta, niin melko alussa tulee ilmoitus jotenkin näin: "You probably want to see some civic options available to you". Nyt se on käännetty: "Saatat haluta tarkastella eri vaihtoehtoja" joka ei oikein kerro oleellista asiaa. Olisiko "...hallitusmuotovaihtoehtoja" tai "...vaihtoehtoja hallitusmuodoksi" tai jotain mutta sellaista?
Click to expand...

I will chance them also. Thanks!

And now I think this is totally Mac-compatible. You can download and test corrected version of _CivLeaders:
http://kahkonen.arkku.net/testiciv/CIV4GameText_Civilopedia_CivLeaders.xml
I will upload it to my homepage when I am ready with those other corrections too.
 
Kahkonen said:
However, I will check them and change. Thanks, Meriadoc!
Click to expand...
I apreciate you have time and interest so much to improve the work. Thank you!

Kahkonen said:
Well, it is a bit odd (because the game alphabetizes them wrong), but it is intentional. I like to see "Olet rakennuttanut majakan" rather than: "Olet rakennuttanut Majakan". (well, if you have infinite time, you can make it so that it is capital letter in lists...)
Click to expand...
This I say in finnish because that is a hard one: Eikö ole niin että sää oot laittanu rakennuksiin useamman (4 vai 5?) sijamuodon, joita sitten peli käyttää eri kohdissa. Osaatko äkkiseltään sanoa missä se käyttää mitäkin? "Olet rakennuttanut majakan" lauseessahan se käyttää genetiiviä. Tuli vain tämmöinen mieleen että jos perusmuotoa (nominatiivia) ei käytetä missään lauseessa vaan ainoastaan listoissa, olisiko mahdollista, että muuttaisi kaikki nominatiivit alkavaksi isolla. Sen voin kyllä minäkin tehdä, tarvin vain vähän neuvoa koska vaikka olen tässä jo paljon oppinut civin xml-rakenteesta, niin sinä osaat edelleen paljon paremmin.


Kahkonen said:
And now I think this is totally Mac-compatible. You can download and test corrected version of _CivLeaders
Click to expand...
Big thanks! It works now perfect. Now I am able to do the "real" work for translation of Warlords when Vanilla is working perfect with Macs too.
 
Ok. You can test it now, I corrected these and wrote some variation.

About capitals. I am fine with present but, here is some instructions.

Now every buildings are in form
Code: 
<Finnish>pöytä:pöydän:pöytää:pöydäksi</Finnish>

You have to add Pöytä
Code: 
<Finnish>[COLOR="Green"]Pöytä[/COLOR]:pöytä:pöydän:pöytää:pöydäksi</Finnish>
and in every place where is now %s1:2_unitName (or like that) change it to %s1:3_unitName (and 3 to 4 and 4 to 5).

Or you can write objects this way
Code: 
<Finnish>[COLOR="Green"]Pöytä[/COLOR]:pöydän:pöytää:pöydäksi:[COLOR="Green"]pöytä[/COLOR]</Finnish>
and everywhere you have %s1_unitName and want it to be written as pöytä, write %s1:5_unitName.

In text files,
%s1_unitName is the first (or only) form
%s1:2_unitName is the second form
and so on.
 
Kahkonen said:
About capitals. I am fine with present but, here is some instructions.
Click to expand...

Okay thanks! I am not sure if I would ever do that, but now I understand how to do it if I decide that way. Pretty big project though :)
It would be easier to only change "pöytä" to "Pöytä" if no sentense uses nominative, but if uses it can't be done that way...

Can you give me some overall picture about the translation of Warlords. I have understood that something has already done, but are there some spesific areas that have been worked? I can offcourse see them when I play, but can you say something general about it?
 
Just for FYI, doing the first part of the changes are technically simple and thus easy to automate. For example, if one knows PHP and knows how to use the XML tools it has, he can simply walk through the XML nodes and do the additions. Depending on how many lines there are to change the programming job is likely to take less time than doing all the work by hand.

The second part requires real knowledge of Finnish so that can't be automated with such ease :)
 
katapultti said:
Okay thanks! I am not sure if I would ever do that, but now I understand how to do it if I decide that way. Pretty big project though :)
It would be easier to only change "pöytä" to "Pöytä" if no sentense uses nominative, but if uses it can't be done that way...

Can you give me some overall picture about the translation of Warlords. I have understood that something has already done, but are there some spesific areas that have been worked? I can offcourse see them when I play, but can you say something general about it?
Click to expand...

There are seven files in (translation pack and in) Warlords' Assets/xml/text folder: CIV4GameText_Civilopedia (almost nothing done), _Warlords.xml (2nd biggest work, maybe 1/4 translated), _Changed (1/10 translated, but this is small file), _Diplomacy (almost everything translated), _Strategy (all done), _Objects (all done), _Civ changed (all done). I don't know if my translation pack works with the newest version of Warlords, but at least no one has complained.

Btw, I have used different inflections in different kind of object. Eg. for improvements there are yksikön nominatiivi, genetiivi, partitiivi and translatiivi; for specialists and great persons there are additionally elatiivi and monikon translatiivi; for units, civics and techs there are only nominatiivi, genetiivi and partitiivi.
 
Hello again!
There are seven files in (translation pack and in) Warlords' Assets/xml/text folder: CIV4GameText_Civilopedia (almost nothing done), _Warlords.xml (2nd biggest work, maybe 1/4 translated), _Changed (1/10 translated, but this is small file), _Diplomacy (almost everything translated), _Strategy (all done), _Objects (all done), _Civ changed (all done). I don't know if my translation pack works with the newest version of Warlords, but at least no one has complained.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I have looked those files and I will do something when I have enough "feelings" for that :)

But until now I have again only played the game, and I have again couple things to complain about the Vanilla translation. So in Finnish:
- Yks isompi asia. Nettipeliä kun menee pelaan ja valitsee "Internet-pelit" päätyy valikkoon kahdella valinnalla: "Tunnus" ja "Luo uusi tili". Jälkimmäinen on ihan oikein mutta ekassa pitäis tietysti lukea "Kirjaudu" tai "Kirjaudu sisään". Sekaannus johtuu varmaan siitä, että englannissa "Log-In" tarkoittaa tunnusta ja "Log In" sisäänkirjautumista. Seuraavassa valikossa Moninpeli->Internet-pelit->Tunnus sekaannus jatkuu eli kirjautumisnapissa lukee Tunnus ja alakulmassa taas Kirjaudu. Tunnus lukee myös tietysti oikealla paikallaan kirjautumisnimen eli tunnuksen kohdalla, josta sitä tietenkään ei saa poistaa. Saisitko hoidettua tämän kuntoon?
- Samalla yksi kirjoitusvirhe: tiedosto CIV4GameTextStrategy, aika lopussa tiedostoa kun alkaa tulla näitä vihjeitä joita näkee pelin latautuessa, hint_3: "Hyvä hetki kauppamahdollisuuksien tarkastamiseen toisten sivilisaatioiden kanssa on juuri kun olet kehittänyt uudetn teknologian - katso mihin voit vaihtaa sen ennen kuin muut ehtivät ensin!"
- Ja jos koet tarpeelliseksi niin eräs ehdotus, samassa tiedostossa kuin edellinen hint_11:
<Finnish>Suojaamaton uudisraivaaja tai kuljetusalus ovat molemmat suuria riskejä - varmista että todella haluat ottaa ne!</Finnish>
<English>An unescorted settler, galleon, or transport are all huge risks - make sure you are willing to take them!</English>
Suomennos on täysin oikein, mutta nyt voisimme tehdä asian paremmin kuin alkuperäisessä pelissä. Kun näin tämän ekan kerran, kirjasin heti ylös että muistaisin ilmoittaa tästä järjettömästä lauseesta, mutta myöhemmin minulle selvisi että lauseen NE tarkoittaa että "ottaa ne (riskit)" eikä "ottaa ne (yksiköt)". Ikävä kyllä se joka käyttää suomennosta katsoo heti että "hei tää on väärin suomennettu, kuka pelle siäkin on ollu" eikä ikinä ymmärrä että vika on jo alkuperäisessä pelissä jonka jumalallista erehtymättömyyttä ei kukaan epäile.
Siksi siinä ehkä olisi syytä lukea "...että todella haluat ottaa ne riskit!"

If you had time to look these, I would apreciate it much.
 
katapultti: englanninkielisessä ei ole mitään vikaa, kyseessä on eroavaisuus suomen ja englannin kielten välillä. Suomennos kuitenkin kärsii tässä tapauksessa anglismista, minkä voi kiertää vaikka ilmaisemalla asian eri tavalla: "Uudisraivaaja ja kuljetusalus ovat molemmat suuria riskejä ollessaan ilman suojaa - tarjoa se niille jos et missään nimessä halua menettää yksiköitäsi!"


Itseäni on alkanut kutkuttaa Legends of Revolutionin kääntäminen, se todellakin tuntuu lupaustensa veroisesti omalta lisälevyltään, vaikka onkin "vain modi".
Recently I've started gaining interest on translating LoR as as it claims it does feel like an expansion pack even though it really is "only a mod".
 
Katapultti and Merri, thank you. Fixed all and wrote that one almost like you Merri proposed. Updated mod is downloadable now.

Ja kun jaksan, niin muokkailen lisää. Pitäisi pelata itse, niin huomaisi niitä virheitä...
 
Just to let you know, I do start the project to translate all of Legends of Revolutions. This means I translate BtS and a whole bunch of mods used to construct the whole of LoR (Auto AI, AutoLog, BUG, RevolutionDCM...). I use Kahkosen work as a basis (unless he doesn't want me to), although my work will include all the other languages featured in Civ4, as the idea is to provide Finnish language integrated into LoR. Thus simply by installing LoR you get access to the Finnish language. Later on, the only additional component would be the Finnish civilization, and for that I think it needs the same degree of quality control that has gone to all the other civilizations in LoR. That is an area of work that is currently out of my scope and is mostly a wish I have.

Technical differences include that I do not modify CvOptionsScreen.py &#8211; instead I try to do things so that the function that counts the number of languages is able to pick up Finnish automatically with no hacks. I hope this is possible to do; and I think it is, as long I provide <Finnish> tag everywhere it is needed and set TXT_KEY_LANGUAGE_# appropriately (for some reason right now I can't find the file that had this, but I know it is in there somewhere).



Edit!
Kahkonen, could you update the first post so that it wouldn't include an outdated download and fix the links to working ones? As I didn't have the Finnish translation on this machine I downloaded from there and now I've done some work on outdated language files.
 
Kahkonen: in the file Civ4GameText_Misc1.xml you have a typo near TXT_KEY_PITBOSS_GAME_MPOPTIONS, malformatted tags :) Also, you still have one German tag in the same file.


Edit!
There is also a tag TXT_KEY_BFEA_DESCRIPTION that does not exist in my Civilization IV file, is this added by you?


Edit #2
In Civ4GameText_Warlords.xml you have a three extra <Text>Pittacus/<Gender>Male tags that you can safely remove. This error does also exist on Pericles in the original Warlords file, I don't know how you got it duplicated in other places but I think you can safely remove them. The extra tags aren't within <English>, <French> etc. as they should be but in the same level in depth. In the end of the same file you have left out TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VINDOBONA, TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PISONIUM, TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ACQUINCUM, TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TYLIS & TXT_KEY_LOGGING_WARNING_DESC
 
aivan loistava setti!
;)

Miksi "suolaton vesi", miksei "makea vesi"?

Aika paljon työtä on nähty tän eteen, tuleeko jatkoa vielä?
 
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