Civ7 now includes Denuvo

[Keith_C]

Denuvo is like airport security.

At best, when everything works perfectly, as it should, it's unnoticable.

At worst, when everything goes wrong, it completely messes up your plans and prevents you from using and/or enjoying the thing you have paid for. You are powerless to do anything about this.

At no point does it add anything of benefit or value to the purchaser.

I cancelled my Founder's Edition pre-order the moment I found out. I have Factorio Space Age to consume me until Denuvo is removed.

 

[user330977]

Denuvo is like airport security.

At best, when everything works perfectly, as it should, it's unnoticable.

At worst, when everything goes wrong, it completely messes up your plans and prevents you from using and/or enjoying the thing you have paid for. You are powerless to do anything about this.

At no point does it add anything of benefit or value to the purchaser.

I cancelled my Founder's Edition pre-order the moment I found out. I have Factorio Space Age to consume me until Denuvo is removed.

Well, according to some on this site, Denuvo DOES add some benefit or value to the purchaser. I'm still waiting to hear what it is, though.

 

[Thrasybulos]

Well, according to some on this site, Denuvo DOES add some benefit or value to the purchaser. I'm still waiting to hear what it is, though.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people, "that thing which doesn't inconvenience me inconveniences other people" is considered a huge benefit.

 

[Linklite]

There are benefits to it - if it prevents piracy, then that means that there are more profits without taking money out of our pockets via price hikes. That means either lower prices for us or more investment in the franchise (or even both).

Even setting that aside, we have to recognise that Firaxis, 2K etc are also entities that are entitled to protect their interests as well. I'd love it if my local supermarket gave everything to me for free - but they're entitled to recompense (and ensuring they get their recompense), and that even includes having security tags on their products, as inconvenient as that may be for me as a customer. Likewise, Firaxis et al should be able to take precautions to protect their interests.

Of course, that doesn't mean they should be able to cause undue problems for us and we should be careful about what precautions they do take. I'm not convinced yet that I want to get any game with Denuvo yet, my concerns haven't been answered yet. But we need to recognise that the businesses have interests that need to be protected too, and that we need to be reasonable about them.

 

[Riconatic]

There are benefits to it - if it prevents piracy, then that means that there are more profits without taking money out of our pockets via price hikes. That means either lower prices for us or more investment in the franchise (or even both).

Even setting that aside, we have to recognise that Firaxis, 2K etc are also entities that are entitled to protect their interests as well. I'd love it if my local supermarket gave everything to me for free - but they're entitled to recompense (and ensuring they get their recompense), and that even includes having security tags on their products, as inconvenient as that may be for me as a customer. Likewise, Firaxis et al should be able to take precautions to protect their interests.

Of course, that doesn't mean they should be able to cause undue problems for us and we should be careful about what precautions they do take. I'm not convinced yet that I want to get any game with Denuvo yet, my concerns haven't been answered yet. But we need to recognise that the businesses have interests that need to be protected too, and that we need to be reasonable about them.

Excelent writeup. I could not agree more.

About your conserns. If I recall correctly they were around offline capability. I recall you mentioning twofold ”wish”.
1. Full offline capability
2. Battfront comparison where EA account was needed to continue for paid content.

My answers:
1. That denuvo can’t do. It needs internet connection sometimes. It cannot do it ever with this version. I would not expect this feature to happen in timeframe civ 7 launches. I recall that you discussed with another user as deep in this matter as there are facts available. So basically I can not add anything new.

2. Denuvo is not content handler. It does not relate to these things at all. This would be another level of requirement outside denuvo. So question ”denuvo or no denuvo” does not answer this.

However we have news that 2k does not require launcher of any kind for this game https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strat...uffer-launching-the-game-twice-for-no-reason/
That is the most direct answer to your question. Steam and epic only will handle the paid content.

Apologies if I misremembered or misinterpreted your concerns.

 

[LastSword]

Let's assume that preventing piracy truely increases revenue.
Let's assume that this is by a great amount.
Let's assume that this value will offset the cost of purchasing Denuvo.
Let's assume that it will offset it by great amount.
Let's assume that publisher will not increase the cost of game to offset purchasing Denuvo.
Let's assume that publisher will generously discount a game because publisher predicts an extra revenue from preventing piracy. (This one is particularly hilarious.)
Let's assume that publisher will invest more money into a product because publisher had increased profit.

Now, let's hear my fairy tale.
Consumer pays for Denuvo, corporation takes any plausible profit from it (no matter how small or great it will be). The cost of Denuvo's license is already in all those prices for base game or special editions.
Obviously I have no proof for that, though neither there is any proof for an other fairy tale. Believe what you like.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

There are benefits to it - if it prevents piracy, then that means that there are more profits without taking money out of our pockets via price hikes. That means either lower prices for us or more investment in the franchise (or even both).

Even setting that aside, we have to recognise that Firaxis, 2K etc are also entities that are entitled to protect their interests as well. I'd love it if my local supermarket gave everything to me for free - but they're entitled to recompense (and ensuring they get their recompense), and that even includes having security tags on their products, as inconvenient as that may be for me as a customer. Likewise, Firaxis et al should be able to take precautions to protect their interests.

Of course, that doesn't mean they should be able to cause undue problems for us and we should be careful about what precautions they do take. I'm not convinced yet that I want to get any game with Denuvo yet, my concerns haven't been answered yet. But we need to recognise that the businesses have interests that need to be protected too, and that we need to be reasonable about them.

Even if this does not translate into cheaper products, this might mean more developpers on the game, and therefore better quality in the long run...

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

There are benefits to it - if it prevents piracy, then that means that there are more profits without taking money out of our pockets via price hikes. That means either lower prices for us or more investment in the franchise (or even both).

It doesn't do either of those things, though.

The price of the game is set to maximize unit sales x price per unit. To the extent that DRMs limit the likelihood of consumers switching to piracy, the only impact it would have on the game is to raise the price. Although it won't do that, either, because the real competition is against other games (and other forms of entertainment).

Corporations don't have a cap on the right amount of profit to generate. They don't find a way to increase profits and then say "wow, that's too much, we'd better lower the price for our customers or hire more developers and spend more on the game now."

 

[HktkNban]

Poor people:
"I need pirated copies to play Civ7 for free because I have no money. That's why I'm against Denuvo, which is an obstacle to getting pirated copies."
"Denuvo is the worst way to deprive poor people of the option to enjoy Civ7."

Rich people:
"I have enough money so I have no trouble buying the authorized version of Civ7."
"I am an equity holder in Take-Two, so more profits for Take-Two means more assets for me. So I agree with Denuvo."

 

[Patine]

Poor people:
"I need pirated copies to play Civ7 for free because I have no money. That's why I'm against Denuvo, which is an obstacle to getting pirated copies."
"Denuvo is the worst way to deprive poor people of the option to enjoy Civ7."

Rich people:
"I have enough money so I have no trouble buying the authorized version of Civ7."
"I am an equity holder in Take-Two, so more profits for Take-Two means more assets for me. So I agree with Denuvo."

You may be surprised that this arguement is not necessarily - or usually - pivoted on wealth status.

 

[MarcosQuadros]

There are benefits to it - if it prevents piracy, then that means that there are more profits without taking money out of our pockets via price hikes.

The price hikining is kinda happening in some regions tho

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

Poor people:
"I need pirated copies to play Civ7 for free because I have no money. That's why I'm against Denuvo, which is an obstacle to getting pirated copies."
"Denuvo is the worst way to deprive poor people of the option to enjoy Civ7."

Rich people:
"I have enough money so I have no trouble buying the authorized version of Civ7."
"I am an equity holder in Take-Two, so more profits for Take-Two means more assets for me. So I agree with Denuvo."

That‘s not really the reality. I personally would never use pirated games (even when i have to admit, i‘ve done so in the past, but only to buy the game a few days later), but i‘m still against Denuvo. Has nothing to do with it. I could buy the game, thanks God i‘m able to buy games, but i won‘t support certain business habits… that‘s the short story.

 

[user330977]

Excelent writeup. I could not agree more.

About your conserns. If I recall correctly they were around offline capability. I recall you mentioning twofold ”wish”.
1. Full offline capability
2. Battfront comparison where EA account was needed to continue for paid content.

My answers:
1. That denuvo can’t do. It needs internet connection sometimes. It cannot do it ever with this version. I would not expect this feature to happen in timeframe civ 7 launches. I recall that you discussed with another user as deep in this matter as there are facts available. So basically I can not add anything new.

2. Denuvo is not content handler. It does not relate to these things at all. This would be another level of requirement outside denuvo. So question ”denuvo or no denuvo” does not answer this.

However we have news that 2k does not require launcher of any kind for this game https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strat...uffer-launching-the-game-twice-for-no-reason/
That is the most direct answer to your question. Steam and epic only will handle the paid content.

Apologies if I misremembered or misinterpreted your concerns.

It's all pure fantasy and wishful thinking. There's no evidence at all that Denuvo will lead to favourable prices for consumers; it's priced the same as any other game release. Everyone understands that companies want to protect their products, but video game consumers seem to be the only subset of people desensitised enough to be happy to take the burden on themselves. Denuvo punishes the law-abiding individual, no one else.

 

[Riconatic]

It's all pure fantasy and wishful thinking. There's no evidence at all that Denuvo will lead to favourable prices for consumers; it's priced the same as any other game release. Everyone understands that companies want to protect their products, but video game consumers seem to be the only subset of people desensitised enough to be happy to take the burden on themselves. Denuvo punishes the law-abiding individual, no one else.

You do not have any evidence otherwise either, just wishful thinking.

One thing remains a fact. Denuvo anti-tamper games are pirated less. That should be good enough reason for anyone. Unless there is some tangible harm to you. Which there is not unless you are full offline gamer.

These facts do not change no matter how many strawmans you build. There is very minimal burden to the gamer. Very very minimal.

 

[user330977]

You do not have any evidence otherwise either, just wishful thinking.

One thing remains a fact. Denuvo anti-tamper games are pirated less. That should be good enough reason for anyone. Unless there is some tangible harm to you. Which there is not unless you are full offline gamer.

These facts do not change no matter how many strawmans you build. There is very minimal burden to the gamer. Very very minimal.

Oh, stop using silly buzzwords to enhance a non-existent argument. You're the one making the claim; you provide the evidence. That's how debates work.

There should be zero burden to the gamer. Zero. I don't pay to be inconvenienced.

 

[Professor Phobo]

The performance loss from anti-tamper is entirely on the developer to manage; if they optimize properly it won't be an issue.

If they do that, the end-user probably won't notice a thing one way or the other.

 

[Leyrann]

You also have a complete disregard for other people. Not everyone's machines take Denuvo as well as yours apparently does, and not everyone can guarantee 100% access to the Internet. Nor should they have to.

Why does he have to care about other people, when all he's doing is explaining why he'll purchase the game anyway?

Whatever. You've been given multiple examples of how Denuvo is a negative but choose to ignore them, and utterly refuse to consider the impacts on other people. If you think disrespect and trust are "nonsense" issues, I pity you. This conversation will go no further.

If anyone is being disrespectful of the other, it's you. Riconatic - for all that his English is poor or perhaps even machine-translated - is clearly not seeking to disrespect or offend you. The other way around, I'm not so sure...

For example:
He: "But in very short: Best anti-piracy tool out there."
You: "Games are cracked often within days."
He: "You are gravely mistaken in your facts again. [...] Not a single 2024 denuvo game has ever been cracked. Only handful of 2023 denuvo games have been cracked."
You: "Please don't post inflammatory remakes like "you are gravely mistaken in your facts" and the refuse to elaborate."

Corporations don't have a cap on the right amount of profit to generate. They don't find a way to increase profits and then say "wow, that's too much, we'd better lower the price for our customers or hire more developers and spend more on the game now."

Don't be ridiculous.

The only point of making money is to have money to spend on things. Money that just sits in your bank account is useless - whether 'you' are a person or a company. If a company makes a profit, that profit will be spent on expanding or improving the company in one way or another. And for a game company, hiring more developers is one of the most obvious ways to do so.

Lowering prices is less likely, but even that cannot be ruled out - lower prices can give you an advantage over your competition, allowing you to gain a better position even though your own profits are also lowered. The primary reason it's less likely to actually happen is because competition with other game developers isn't actually a big deal, as most people just buy all the games that catch their attention, rather than picking between them.

Poor people:
"I need pirated copies to play Civ7 for free because I have no money. That's why I'm against Denuvo, which is an obstacle to getting pirated copies."
"Denuvo is the worst way to deprive poor people of the option to enjoy Civ7."

Rich people:
"I have enough money so I have no trouble buying the authorized version of Civ7."
"I am an equity holder in Take-Two, so more profits for Take-Two means more assets for me. So I agree with Denuvo."

Funny.

I make <22k per year including government benefits, I have completely regular expenses (not living with parents, no shared household, no shared rent, etc), and yet according to you, I fall into the "rich people" category (I have enough money so I have no trouble buying the authorized version of Civ 7).

 

[Zoeff]

Don't be ridiculous.

The only point of making money is to have money to spend on things. Money that just sits in your bank account is useless - whether 'you' are a person or a company. If a company makes a profit, that profit will be spent on expanding or improving the company in one way or another. And for a game company, hiring more developers is one of the most obvious ways to do so.

Something something CEO bonuses

 

[Leyrann]

Something something CEO bonuses

Ah yes.

And 100% of the profit goes into that.

 

[Kwami]

There are benefits to it - if it prevents piracy, then that means that there are more profits without taking money out of our pockets via price hikes. That means either lower prices for us or more investment in the franchise (or even both).

Or, 2K just keeps the extra profits and awards them to their executives and shareholders.

The new version of Civilizations costs a lot more than the previous versions did. Where are my savings?