Civ7 now includes Denuvo

[Riconatic]

Then what's the point of the install limit? I guess it's so absurdly high that no normal person would be bothered, but its existence means a single pirated copy might have difficulty becoming public?

Yes. It is against different form of distributing pirated software than cracking it. My understanding at the moment it tries to prevent attack vector described in this old news for example.

Denuvo’s game DRM is too hard to crack so a hacker bypassed it instead, — Hive

January of this year, well known Chinese cracking forum 3DM predicted that games would become uncrackable by 2018. The reason was a digital rights management (DRM) solution… by hardmanj

hive.blog

However I have not researched these piracy methods very well. So I am not sure what all install limit is for.

 

[Leyrann]

Yet when I pressed Riconatic to provide evidence for his claims, you remained oddly silent. Curious.

Riconatic, as far as I'm aware, did not tell you that you should provide the evidence.

I don't particularly care if people don't provide evidence - that just means their argument is weak. However, if you tell someone else to find the evidence for your own claims, you're moving beyond that, and going against what an argument is supposed to be like - namely, both people making claims and trying to support those claims with evidence in order to convince the other. By telling someone to find the evidence themselves, you're telling them to convince themselves, which doesn't make sense.

Then what's the point of the install limit? I guess it's so absurdly high that no normal person would be bothered, but its existence means a single pirated copy might have difficulty becoming public?

As you said, no normal person would be bothered by it. However, if someone were to simply make their version of the game available for copying (this is probably an oversimplification...) on a pirating website, then every single copy would count towards the install limit... meaning you limit the pirating to only five copies per day, far too low a number to be worth the effort.

Which means that if someone wanted to make a pirated copy available to everyone, they'd have to either 1) remove the check for which copy of the game you have entirely or 2) fool the system into believing you have different copies of the game. Both are far more difficult than just copying the entire thing, even if there are some barriers to the copying itself (and I don't know whether there are).

 

[chaosprophet]

The copy limit is also likely to give the player some wiggle room. Lets say you install the game in a new computer, if you didn't have a larger than 1 per 24h, you would then need to wait 24 hours to play in the new computer. Same if changing the hardware of the computer. Also allows you to have it installed in a few computers if you happen to have two machines you play the game at alternate times of the day, etc.

 

[Solver]

Just as data points. Jedi: Survivor released a patch now removing Denuvo. It caused a spike in positive reviews on Steam, and many reviews from the last 24 hours are praising a performance increase. We don't have confirmed measurable data on the effects of Denuvo in the game, but its removal clearly coincides with a performance improvement in Jedi Survivor, which has also previously been observed in several other games. Though for fairness, it's important to note Denuvo integration is game-specific and can be done better or worse.

 

[Riconatic]

Just as data points. Jedi: Survivor released a patch now removing Denuvo. It caused a spike in positive reviews on Steam, and many reviews from the last 24 hours are praising a performance increase. We don't have confirmed measurable data on the effects of Denuvo in the game, but its removal clearly coincides with a performance improvement in Jedi Survivor, which has also previously been observed in several other games. Though for fairness, it's important to note Denuvo integration is game-specific and can be done better or worse.

Jedi survivor patch notes start:

Patch 9 Details

This patch focuses primarily on performance and quality of life improvements for the PC version of the game.

Performance Improvements

• Framerate improvements for various hardware configurations.
• Fixes for several sources of framerate hitching for smoother gameplay.
• Ray Tracing has been optimized for CPU usage and should now scale better for high-end GPUs.
• Fixes for performance related to using a mouse as gameplay input.

It would very strange if performance would not increase. Denuvo or no denuvo.

 

[Dale]

Doesn't matter what someone says, there's always someone else who will argue against it.

Black is white, up is down.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Black is white, up is down.

Says the Australian

 

[Leyrann]

Just as data points. Jedi: Survivor released a patch now removing Denuvo. It caused a spike in positive reviews on Steam, and many reviews from the last 24 hours are praising a performance increase. We don't have confirmed measurable data on the effects of Denuvo in the game, but its removal clearly coincides with a performance improvement in Jedi Survivor, which has also previously been observed in several other games. Though for fairness, it's important to note Denuvo integration is game-specific and can be done better or worse.

Just for completeness' sake: Is this Denuvo Anti-Tamper or Denuvo Anti-Cheat?

I'm assuming the former?

 

[pokiehl]

That entire patch was dedicated to performance boosts so I think that's pretty inconclusive. It is a data point for Denuvo being removed despite the game not being cracked, though.

 

[Solver]

Just for completeness' sake: Is this Denuvo Anti-Tamper or Denuvo Anti-Cheat?

I'm assuming the former?

It's a single player game so yes, I also understand it would only have the DRM software and not anti-cheat.

 

[Fippy]

Good article: https://www.howtogeek.com/400126/what-is-denuvo-and-why-do-gamers-hate-it/

And especially:

Some game developers go the other way, of course. CD Projekt Red doesn't use any anti-piracy software at all in The Witcher 3. Anyone can download and play it. As the co-founder of CD Projekt Red and GOG puts it:

But the piracy factor was irrelevant, because we cannot force people to buy things. We can only convince them to do it. We totally believe in the carrot, not in the stick.

That attitude seems to be paying off for CD Projekt Red, too. The Witcher 3 has sold more than 40 million copies since it was released. Cyberpunk 2077 --- despite an extremely rocky launch --- managed to sell more than 13 million units in its first few weeks and has gone on to sell more than 20 million in total.

Unless many more game developers take that same approach, Denuvo and similar solutions will be around for a long time to come. But hopefully, they'll get better. If software like this is necessary, gamers should at least expect better than Denuvo's slowdowns.

Basically they only have to worry about piracy if the game doesn't have a big enuf, loyal fellowship.
Somebody who doesn't want to buy games isn't in their customer pool anyways.

I think this move stinks in more than one way.

 

[Gedemon]

That entire patch was dedicated to performance boosts so I think that's pretty inconclusive. It is a data point for Denuvo being removed despite the game not being cracked, though.

On the other hand, maybe it's not a coincidence that they decided to remove Denuvo for a performance focused patch.

 

[Kwami]

Good article: https://www.howtogeek.com/400126/what-is-denuvo-and-why-do-gamers-hate-it/

And especially:


Basically they only have to worry about piracy if the game doesn't have a big enuf, loyal fellowship.
Somebody who doesn't want to buy games isn't in their customer pool anyways.

I think this move stinks in more than one way.

Yes, the successes of the GOG platform and of CDPR's games prove that DRM is not necessary and that it should not be used.

 

[Riconatic]

On the other hand, maybe it's not a coincidence that they decided to remove Denuvo for a performance focused patch.

Maybe they would have put it in section ”Performance Improvements” then?

 

[Kwami]

Maybe they would have put it in section ”Performance Improvements” then?

Probably not, because then they would be admitting that they saddled paying customers with worse performance in the name of preventing piracy. That would make it harder to use Denuvo on their next game.

 

[Leyrann]

Maybe they would have put it in section ”Performance Improvements” then?

Probably not, because then they would be admitting that they saddled paying customers with worse performance in the name of preventing piracy. That would make it harder to use Denuvo on their next game.

And they'd also be badmouthing a business partner, which is something you'll want to avoid.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Good article: https://www.howtogeek.com/400126/what-is-denuvo-and-why-do-gamers-hate-it/

And especially:

For what it's worth (next to nothing), I recently bought Witcher 3. It'll be one of the games I play instead of Civ 7 until Civ 7 ships without Denovu.

 

[Riconatic]

For what it's worth (next to nothing), I recently bought Witcher 3. It'll be one of the games I play instead of Civ 7 until Civ 7 ships without Denovu.

New info for me was that 2k has removed Denuvo in 6-7 months for few games. Lego 2k drive and the quarry. For some it has been much much longer (and still is). But I guess there is hope for 6 month removal.

 

[bladex1200]

Hoping for a 6 month removal. Definitely won't be installing it until Denuvo is gone...

 

[Kwami]

New info for me was that 2k has removed Denuvo in 6-7 months for few games. Lego 2k drive and the quarry. For some it has been much much longer (and still is). But I guess there is hope for 6 month removal.

Hoping for a 6 month removal. Definitely won't be installing it until Denuvo is gone...

Don't count on it. The only other Firaxis game with Denuvo, Marvel's Midnight Suns, still has Denuvo almost two years after release.