Civ7 now includes Denuvo

[lt22677]

I'm not sure I understand the exact difference between Civ 6 without Denuvo and Civ 7 with. Nor had I realized that Civ 6 modders gained the ability to modify Civ 6's binary code like that. Gives me hope for a lekmod kind of deal for Civ 6 one day.

From what I can tell this means that mods that go beyond the scope of the modding tools provided by Firaxis are difficult even without Denuvo but with Denuvo it's even more difficult? Is that correct?

Denuvo does not prevent standard mods, but any Mod that touches the EXE file with Denuvo is impossible. I don't know if it would be possible with DLL files, but Firaxis didn't even release them for CIV 6. Another thing is that Denuvo need to authenticate every X days (depends on the publisher) the game must connect to the server to get one back, so playing offline is possible if you have the active ticket if not you have to go online and at least for me this gave me some problems (especially with fm 2023 because the server had problems and I've been avoiding every Denuvo game since then). for further information on this I put this link where they talk about it

Denuvo doesn't let me play a game offline? :: Help and Tips

steamcommunity.com

 

[pokiehl]

Another thing is that Denuvo need to authenticate every X days (depends on the publisher) the game must connect to the server to get one back, so playing offline is possible if you have the active ticket if not you have to go online and at least for me this gave me some problems (especially with fm 2023 because the server had problems and I've been avoiding every Denuvo game since then). for further information on this I put this link where they talk about it

Denuvo doesn't let me play a game offline? :: Help and Tips

steamcommunity.com

I don’t believe any of this to be true.

There’s no proof this has ever been the case for Denuvo Anti-Tamper. The “source” for that is other forum posts citing each other in a weird cycle.

A 7-year old Steam thread doesn’t prove anything, I think. Half the posts were people arguing about it. Denuvo Anti-Tamper and Anti-Cheat weren’t even separate products until years later.

 

[lt22677]

I don’t believe any of this to be true.

There’s no proof this has ever been the case for Denuvo Anti-Tamper. The “source” for that is other forum posts citing each other in a weird cycle.

A 7-year old Steam thread doesn’t prove anything, I think. Half the posts were people arguing about it. Denuvo Anti-Tamper and Anti-Cheat weren’t even separate products until years later.

So you do one thing, do some research regardless of what I tell you and check if what I told you is true or false and then let me know

PS:I thought you knew what Denuvo did, but I see you know nothing

Moderator Action: Please stop trolling other forum members. leif

 

[number51]

That's great, we are not 100% sure how bad Denuvo is for our home computers! LOL

Why the hell would anyone pay for a piece of software that could cause problems on your system? I want to play Civ VII but there is no way I am going to risk my system to play a game.

If down the road the devs choose to clean it up and remove the harmful files, then I will buy and play the game, until then, I will play a clean game that I know will not ruin my system.

 

[lt22677]

That's great, we are not 100% sure how bad Denuvo is for our home computers! LOL

Why the hell would anyone pay for a piece of software that could cause problems on your system? I want to play Civ VII but there is no way I am going to risk my system to play a game.

If down the road the devs choose to clean it up and remove the harmful files, then I will buy and play the game, until then, I will play a clean game that I know will not ruin my system.

The problem is that there is a lack of transparency, see this "need to authenticate every X day" many in here don't know it and this opens up the problem if denuvo or Take 2 decide to no longer support the game or the DRM method used is no longer compatible with the new operating system (see Safedisc), then or they release a patch to remove the DRM or you will no longer be able to use the game bought it (it happened to me with old Football Managers like 2008 which uses Safedisc and SEGA didn't release the patch to remove Safedisc)

 

[Professor Phobo]

That's great, we are not 100% sure how bad Denuvo is for our home computers! LOL

Why the hell would anyone pay for a piece of software that could cause problems on your system? I want to play Civ VII but there is no way I am going to risk my system to play a game.

If down the road the devs choose to clean it up and remove the harmful files, then I will buy and play the game, until then, I will play a clean game that I know will not ruin my system.

That's not how this works. Denuvo might cause problems /for Civilization VII/ but it's not going to affect your computer beyond that.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Understanding this is a difficult topic, we ought to be trying to figure out how Denuvo works and what consequences it may have for our computer systems. This will allow forum members to make an informed decision about whether they wish to purchase the game. All this other arguing does nothing for those forum members looking for information.

 

[Siddorm]

I have this hypothetical scenario in mind:
1. I decide I will not buy the game if it has Denuvo.
2. Firaxis/2k announce that they have changed their minds and that Denuvo is no longer present.
3. I buy the game and play it for 10 hours.
4. Firaxis/2k announce that they have changed their minds again and that Denuvo has now been re-added.
My question is this: When I buy a game, do I simply have to accept that they can subsequently make whatever changes they want to it?

 

[Kwami]

Moderator Action: Understanding this is a difficult topic, we ought to be trying to figure out how Denuvo works and what consequences it may have for our computer systems. This will allow forum members to make an informed decision about whether they wish to purchase the game. All this other arguing does nothing for those forum members looking for information.

Good luck. The company that makes the software doesn't release much information to the public because they prefer for us not to know how it works.

What we do know:

• The executable cannot run without first being decrypted.
• The decryption step cannot happen without an authorization token from Denuvo, which requires an Internet connection.
• The tokens are generated based on a collection of information sent to Denuvo, which includes the hardware configuration of the computer that the game is installed on.
• The Denuvo-wrapped game runs in a virtual machine, which can impact performance.
• The combination of the virtual machine and the encryption make Denuvo very difficult to crack.
• Modifying the executable (and possibly the DLLs) will cause the decryption step to fail, which can impact modding capabilities.
• The game can only be installed on X computers in a Y hours. Based on the Steam information, it's 5 computers in 24 hours for this game.

What we don't know:

• Exactly what information is collected by Denuvo.
• For how long a token is valid; or, how often the game has to connect to Denuvo's servers.
• What Firaxis plans to do if Denuvo stops supporting its software in the future and its servers are no longer available.
• Whether Firaxis plans to remove Denuvo at some future time.

 

[WildW]

I have this hypothetical scenario:
1. I decide I will not buy the game if it has Denuvo.
2. Firaxis/2k announce that they have changed their minds and that Denuvo is no longer present.
3. I buy the game and play it for 10 hours.
4. Firaxis/2k announce that they have changed their minds again and that Denuvo has now been re-added.
My question is this: When I buy a game, do I simply have to accept that they can subsequently make whatever changes they want to it?

Denuvo is only useful to them if it prevents early pirates. If the game launched without it or if it was removed shortly after launch, re-adding it would give them very minimal benefit as the damage would have already been done, and pirates would have access to a cracked version of the game. This is also why people are optimistic that it will be removed at some point into the game's lifespan, after it gets cracked (which will likely take months)

Though because Civ VII will likely have regular DLCs, which will also need copy-theft protection, there's a good chance that Denuvo's anti-tamper will be a part of the game for a while.


However, ultimately the answer to your question is yes. Take-Two's EULA specifies that it may provide updates to its services that are required for the continued function of the product.

If, however, you back up an older version or download an archive for a previous version, and it in some capacity, still works, you are within your right to use it to the extent that the current EULA permits. You may reject changes made to the arbitration agreement since you accepted the terms of the EULA.

if Take-Two changes any of the terms of this Arbitration Agreement after the date you first accepted the Arbitration Agreement (or accepted any subsequent changes to the Arbitration Agreement), you may reject the new changes. To reject the new changes to the Arbitration Agreement, you must notify us in writing within 30 days of the effective date of the changes you seek to reject

Take-Two Terms of Service

www.take2games.com

 

[WildW]

What we do know:

• The executable cannot run without first being decrypted.
• The decryption step cannot happen without an authorization token from Denuvo, which requires an Internet connection.

Small correction here: the executable cannot be run before it is encrypted, which requires an internet connection. Once the executable is encrypted, decryption does not require an internet connection as it is based on the details of your hardware and operation system.

 

[pokiehl]

This is also why people are optimistic that it will be removed at some point into the game's lifespan, after it gets cracked (which will likely take months)

Slight clarificarion: no game with Denuvo released since early 2023 has been cracked.

There’s a good chance Civ 7 could take years to crack, or never be cracked.

 

[Dale]

Slight clarificarion: no game with Denuvo released since early 2023 has been cracked.

There’s a good chance Civ 7 could take years to crack, or never be cracked.

The person who was cracking Denuvo games (Empress) got arrested last year according to reports. No one has taken up the task since. It's likely no one will either.

 

[pokiehl]

The person who was cracking Denuvo games (Empress) got arrested last year according to reports. No one has taken up the task since. It's likely no one will either.

Nope. There are no “reports” of this so I don’t know what you’re referring to.

Empress was the only person cracking Denuvo but there’s no proof they’re arrested. Just an unsubstantiated rumor (which describes most of the accusations in this thread actually).

They posted about getting arrested in 2021 but they are known for posting trolling comments or stories, and they did crack games post-2021. They also said Irdeto offered to pay them $200,000 a month or something. Just a lot of random stories.

 

[Gedemon]

Moderator Action: a reminder that we don't allow discussion about how to avoid copy-protection

(removed 1 post)

 

[leif erikson]

Good luck. The company that makes the software doesn't release much information to the public because they prefer for us not to know how it works.

We may never know how it works in detail. What we may find out is what effect it has on a computer system.

As a community, we are very fortunate to have talented modders who understand how our favorite game works. I want to thank them for trying to help us understand what the effects of a Denuvo might be on our computer systems. They do not deserve some of the comments directed at them. I appreciate their contributions to our community.

 

[bv98132454]

It is business malpractice for Firaxis/2K to not have addressed this issue directly yet.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Malpractice - no.
Predatory business model - yes.
But not because DRM is being used, but because information of it's addition is being presented over a week after preorder option was open.

BTW a lot about Empress is hearsay.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

Remember when we used to buy CDs and none of this was ever a problem?

 

[pokiehl]

Remember when we used to buy CDs and none of this was ever a problem?

DRM/copy protection has been around since the very earliest days of computer gaming--including solutions that get installed on your PC when you stuck your CD in the drive and installed the game. Why would any game developer cede to piracy?