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Civilization 5 and Steam(works)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Technical Support' started by ori, May 31, 2010.

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How will the integration of Steam(works) influence your decision on buying Civ5?

  1. I will probably buy the game, Steam is making me more likely to buy it.

    62 vote(s)
    9.3%
  2. I will probably buy the game, Steam does not influence this decision either way.

    93 vote(s)
    14.0%
  3. I will probably buy the game, Steam is making me less likely to buy it.

    94 vote(s)
    14.1%
  4. I am undecided on whether I will buy the game, Steam is making me more likely to do so.

    4 vote(s)
    0.6%
  5. I am undecided on whether I will buy the game, Steam does not influence this decision either way.

    9 vote(s)
    1.4%
  6. I am undecided on whether I will buy the game, Steam is making me less likely to do so.

    48 vote(s)
    7.2%
  7. I will probably NOT buy the game, Steam is making me more likely to buy it.

    1 vote(s)
    0.2%
  8. I will probably NOT buy the game, Steam does not influence this decision either way.

    2 vote(s)
    0.3%
  9. I will probably NOT buy the game, Steam is making me less likely to buy it.

    27 vote(s)
    4.1%
  10. I will definitely NOT buy the game, because of Steam.

    103 vote(s)
    15.5%
  11. I will definitely NOT buy the game, Steam doesn't affect this decision.

    3 vote(s)
    0.5%
  12. I will definitely buy the game, because of Steam.

    24 vote(s)
    3.6%
  13. I will definitely buy the game, Steam doesn't affect this decision.

    196 vote(s)
    29.4%
  1. Fife

    Fife Chieftain

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    I just won't use it. Promblem solved!!!!:)
     
  2. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    There are people who enjoy Alpha Centauri more than Civ 4 as well... are you saying that they are a bunch of mindless idiots as well?
     
  3. Fife

    Fife Chieftain

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    I don't believe most of the people that use this site are complete idiots... Although I prefer civ4
     
  4. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    Senethro is saying that unless your review of Civ 4 is higher than any other game in the Universe, you are 'the wrong person to listen to'.

    Moderator Action:
    Senthro certainly doesn't need you to speak for him or interpret his posts to others. Your post contributes nothing meaningful to the discussion and only erodes civility. Please stop speaking for others.

    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889


    So, to Sene You can't have a game you like better than Civ 4, or you just don't know what you are talking about, and thus you must be a mindless idiot...

    It's a strange logic he is using there.
     
  5. radioplug

    radioplug Chieftain

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    Steam lead to overpriced impulse buys? I only buy anything that's on sale. I've only ever paid more than 10 dollars for two games: TES:IV and Lego Star Wars (complete). I also purchased the Rockstar Pack and iD pack which were more than 10 dollars, but came out to less than 3/4 dollars per game.

    I've spent $205.60 on 67 games. The true value according to steamcalculator.com (a site that adds retail value of all games) is $1000.33. So I've saved almost 80%.

    I'm just saying...there is a lot of misinformation about it.

    I will say though that CiV will probably be the first purchase I make more than $40 dollars on there.
     
  6. Fife

    Fife Chieftain

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    Well civ 4 is good. But it is not the best game in the known universe. Who knows? Maybe Aliens have their own civilization.
     
  7. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Nope. SMAC is a far superior game to Civ3 IMO. SMAC vs Civ4? Tossup, I'd go with Civ4 for modability, but reasonable people can disagree.
     
  8. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    Senethro thinks that you should not be listened to, because unless you feel that Civ 4 is superior to A.C., you just don't know what you are talking about then. And you would fall into w/e category Senethro has created for the 'crazies that don't see Civ 4 as the best game since the Big Bang'. :scan:

    Moderator Action: Senthro certainly doesn't need you to speak for him or interpret his posts to others. Your post contributes nothing meaningful to the discussion and only erodes civility. Please stop speaking for others.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  9. Fife

    Fife Chieftain

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    Both are good. They're made by the same person for peet's sake!!
     
  10. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Source?
     
  11. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Long way off topic now so I'm finally going to spoiler the post.
    Spoiler :
    I would too tbh, unless there was a good reason for it.
    Agreed. I wouldn't suggest replacing the usual homework. And lol I definitely wouldn't suggest paying for individual copies of the game for each student. Cmon that's pretty absurd.;)
    Doing maths doesn't require doing calculations. ;)
    Yes that sort of set up would likely be a bad idea, though it would depend on the normal behaviour of the class.
    Interesting way to put it. Never mind it's impossible to completely guarantee learning. But that's a pedantic point I admit. I assume you do appreciate that effective teachers usually use a mixture of teaching techniques, else they become stale and ineffective to their class. I've done this myself (not mixing things up enough), and have learned from that sort of mistake.
    Yes, and again I'm not advocating taking up valuable class hours. If it was incorporated into a well constructed lesson it might work, but from the way you've been describing it being used, I agree it would be ineffective.
    There's always something any two people can agree on. :)
    Sorry I don't mean to make so harsh an implication. You did call yourself an educational conservative. I take that as generally meaning someone resistant (or at least hesitant) to change, preferring old-fashioned or traditional or even "proven" techniques, if you will. Nothing wrong with that, and honestly, being too open to alternative techniques is not a good thing either. Striking a balance somewhere in between is IMO a good way to go.
    Harmless perhaps. The question is it beneficial?
    I was using primary school children to highlight how children (at any age IMO) can learn quite a lot when they're having fun, for example playing games. The age I've been most interested in is the early high school stage - around 12 to 16 years old.
    You'd be surprised. I was playing civ1 before I was 10. I couldn't appreciate everything in the game obviously but many things like the tax system, battle probabilities, ADM values, city sizes, number of turns for air units etc. etc. made enough sense to me. I think games can in general bring down pretty big barriers for children. If it's in a game like civ, they don't even think of it as maths and so they don't automatically attach the stigma and start blocking it out as being just another educational thing where they have to do 'work'.

    As I said earlier, I don't think we're reaching an agreement here but thank you for the discussion. I really do like seeing well thought out views on this sort of thing. :)
     
  12. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Tom, you clearly haven't done your research on me and seen the 1000+posts I have in the Alpha Centauri forum at Apolyton.

    Also, my top 5 of games is

    Planescape: Torment
    Alpha Centauri
    Street Fighter Alpha 3
    Enemy Territory Series
    Thief? No, Deus Ex. Or maybe Stalker. Or Vampire: Bloodlines. Damnit, theres still System Shock. And Morrowind. Hell, some good first person RPG. Whatever, 5 is too short.
     
  13. Gelvan

    Gelvan Prince

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    AC clearly is much superiour to civ3 - but I think the modability of civ4 has created modders who created mods that are not better but something completely different and therefore at pair with AC if you look on the "how much fun is it"-factor. (of course fun is indiviual :)).

    I personally think Planetfall is as much AC2 as civ2 was not civ1. of course planetfall can't be the SAME thing as AC. what would be the point of creating a clone? a clone always would be less than the original. Planetfall did it right, by creating something new, with civ4 elements and AC elements for a NEW game.

    I really have no idea what my point was, but I like all of them, even civ3 (even though I haven't played it since civ4/FFH2 came out.)
     
  14. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Bonus post: Top 5 mods.

    Fall from Heaven
    The Nameless Mod
    Air Buccaneers
    Dear Esther
    Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age
     
  15. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Spoiler :

    Well, you'd kinda have to if you were assigning it as homework.

    Let me rephrase then; its perfectly possible to play Civ (particularly if you aren't very good, don't really know what you're doing, or aren't trynig to win) without doing any math.
    For plenty of kids it could be mindless clicking.

    Sure.

    But when I was in high school, I think teachers generally had kids play "learning" games like Civ or SimCity or Diplomacy (boardgame) or watch a video as an excuse for having a real lesson plan. It was a way for teachers to have a low-stress class where they could sit around and catch up on grading.
    I (and most others) learned nothing from these.

    I find it hard to see how you could incorporate it into just a single lesson or two. For kids in particular who don't have prior experience, its going to take quite a while for them to even figure out what is going on, more than just a part of a single lesson. Let alone play much of a game.

    Let me rephrase; guarantee that they're actually doing something math-related.

    Sure.

    Depends what the alternative is.
    At the school I went to in New Zealand, where most people were outside playing games or sports, or reading.
    But then at many schools in big cities in the US, kids are just locked in a cafeteria through lunch.

    I am guessing that you had more of a background with computers than the median/lower quartile student, and were of generally higher ability than the median/lower quartile student.

    I played Civ1 when it came out, but I'm old.

     
  16. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    These comparisons are always hard. Best as of when they came out, or best even today?

    Planescape Torment is absolutely on my list, and is my case in point for anyone saying video games can't be art, because they don't make you "feel".

    Anyone who didn't feel emotion watching (though one of the memory crystals) their old self shamelessly manipulate poor Deionarra is dead inside. Plus, Morte was comic gold.

    Otherwise:
    Civ4, Company of Heroes, Starcraft, Deus Ex. And maybe Baldur's Gate 2/ToB, and Master of Magic, Master of Orion 2.
     
  17. MaxCiv

    MaxCiv Warlord

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    You clearly don't have a clue of what you are talking about and you are inventing new conspiracy theories. Do you have any proof that the statements above are even close to reality? Why do you keep spreading FUD?

    When you add non-steam game to your Steam client, all you do is the equivalent of creating a shortcut in your game list. This is usually done for convenience and the game you add will not have the same options of Steam games (auto updates, etc).

    It has nothing to do with DRM, it doesn't check the authenticity of the exe file, it doesn't call the cops on you, it is just shortcut in the game list.
     
  18. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    Online accounts claim otherwise... so if you think all of those people are lying, then you are in the conspiracy theory mode. I don't necessarily believe them or not believe them, but I don't think it's some huge fabricated thing going on.

    And being a DRM mechanism, it would make sense that they don't allow pirated games to be run on Steam. Do you think Steam lets people use Steam to run Pirate Copies? Steam is their own cops, they can check an exe run through their program if they choose to.

    Most pirates probably don't complain about it if their Steam account gets closed after trying to run pirated software through Steam (as stupid as that would be to do). But if a legit user has trouble, it is worth letting people know about it. Most people probably don't use that function anyways, so not a big deal.
     
  19. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Ahriman
    Spoiler :


    Well, you'd kinda have to if you were assigning it as homework.
    We could go round in circles. :crazyeye:(jumping to conclusions all the time, that is) For starters, there could be a class computer, a couple of computers with it installed in the computer room, or some other arrangement.

    Let me rephrase then; its perfectly possible to play Civ (particularly if you aren't very good, don't really know what you're doing, or aren't trynig to win) without doing any math.
    For plenty of kids it could be mindless clicking.

    True. For many kids, math exercises are mindless manipulations as well. Surely there's always a risk some kids won't learn as much as others do. A task involving civ certainly doesn't need to be assigned to someone who has zero interest in the game or who clearly could not get any benefit from it based on their current level of development.
    <I'm a bit tired now, so this point is probably not very clear and I'm leaving myself wide open to counter argument, but such is life.>

    Sure.

    But when I was in high school, I think teachers generally had kids play "learning" games like Civ or SimCity or Diplomacy (boardgame) or watch a video as an excuse for having a real lesson plan. It was a way for teachers to have a low-stress class where they could sit around and catch up on grading.
    I (and most others) learned nothing from these.


    Ah interesting. By high school, I think the best we ever got to do in spare class time was minesweeper or solitaire. :(
    I am honestly surprised you flatly say you learned nothing from these. Particularly with the board game, and assuming you didn't all sit in silence playing civ or simcity individually, I bet you were all talking with each other. I'm sure you know this (don't want to sound too preachy) but students learn arguably more effectively from each other - peers - than they do from teachers. Whether it's a cultural, generational or language gap - whatever you want to call it - it is real IMO. No matter how "with it" I think I am, I simply am not. :lol:
    Anyway, those easy lessons may have had little obvious educational value in terms of the outcomes for the subject and so on, but can you deny they had any value? Even schoolchildren deserve occasional breaks. It shouldn't always be viewed as a waste of time. Are they not building relationships etc. etc.



    I find it hard to see how you could incorporate it into just a single lesson or two. For kids in particular who don't have prior experience, its going to take quite a while for them to even figure out what is going on, more than just a part of a single lesson. Let alone play much of a game.
    It's true. Probably would be difficult to put in a single lesson. I'm sure there would be ways to work it into a fun assignment (for maybe 12-14 year olds), where there are other alternatives that are similarly fun. The project might require playing through at least one game and giving a report on how a particular math topic is related. It's a fact that these days there are a lot of "geeky" and very computer literate children who are pretty young. I bet many would jump at the option of getting to play a game as part of a "fun" assignment.
    As for a single lesson, maybe you could build a mod that is a heavily restricted scenario such that it is not as epic as the normal game. Remember civ4 is incredibly moddable. However now we're talking about a teacher spending a lot of time building a mod.:lol:

    I am guessing that you had more of a background with computers than the median/lower quartile student, and were of generally higher ability than the median/lower quartile student.

    Probably but not by much. I didn't know how to do much with computers, but the family was lucky to have more than one computer, so there was always a computer one step down from the business computer that was available for us to play games. I think civ1 was loaded up through DOS, and I still have memories of how confusing the DOS console commands were, which my older brother seemed to know how to do.
    I was probably most different in that I was a bit of a numbers kid at an early age, as was my older brother. I remember he had worked out with pen and paper strategies for civ1 that were shown to me as if they were gospel. Things like putting a phalanx in every new city. What city growth thresholds there were based on which buildings the city had. etc.

    My ability to grapple civ1 way back then would certainly not be exceptional by today's standards. Heck we didn't even have the internet back then


    I played Civ1 when it came out, but I'm old.
    So you have wisdom to share. By the way, I have such fond memories from around the time I played civ1, it's part of the reason an iconic part of it is in my avatar. :) I remember specifically getting to go home 5 minutes early, along with a few other lucky kids, from a class in grade 2 (about age 8 I guess) because I was able to think of a word starting with 'ph'. Can you guess what it was? :D It's funny actually, the teacher didn't know what it meant, and neither did I really, but she seemed to believe my explanation that it was an ancient military unit (I didn't even know it carried a spear). I probably freaked her out that day.

     
  20. MaxCiv

    MaxCiv Warlord

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    Can you link these accounts where it is claimed that adding a shortcut to a non-steam game (legit or not) in the Steam client's game list resulted in the ban of the Steam account in question?

    The only games that run "through" Steam are the one that you buy from Steam. Adding a shortcut to an exe in your game list is no different that creating the same shortcut on your desktop or quick launch bar.

    Pirates don't need a Steam account since they bypass it completely. Your "warnings" are useful only if they are based on actual proven facts
     

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