Civilization 5 Rants Thread

[guygodbois]

Ahh, sweet irony.

 

[Titler]

Ok... first post in a long time, and it's going to be a Ranty one!

Civilization V eh? Where did I leave the Civ series, after following it all the way from Civ 1 on the Amiga, back when I should have been focusing on my studies at University, instead of "just one more turn-ing" until the essay deadlines were 3 hours away? I left it at Monarch level on Civ IV Beyond, when I grew tired of the way the AI was deliberately scripted to dog pile you, and only you, if you started to become too strong; which turned the game from a fun piece of escapism to an elitist, Min/max, Game Guide following to the letter, or however you want to describe it exercise in manipulating the engine limitations. Whilst it may have pleased the hardcore by offering them a challenge, it robbed the game of spontaneity or emergent experiences; and it forgot that the purpose of a Civ game is not to be an arcade style beat 'em up say (where one must perform the quirkafleeg at the exact pico-second required), but a global playground for people to play at being God-Kings in.

You can already guess where I'm going with this... but not just yet! So Civ V came along with a demo, and I gave it a shot. I wasn't a huge fan of the new combat mechanics, nor the messy over-detailed graphics. But it turned up on Steam Sale recently and I saw the Gold edition was a couple of quid; what can I say, I've purchased every Civ ever, Colonization and Alpha Centauri too... so out of completeness' sake I took a gamble...

Let the ranting begin!

Ok, firstly it's HORRIBLY optimized. It memory leaks like a bugger. It has insane loading times WHICH DON'T SEEM TO PROGRESS WHEN ALT TABBED AWAY. No reading web pages whilst waiting for it to load! The UI is simplified, but surprisingly also pointlessly obtuse when it comes to information you may need; tracking the relations of people to each other and the city states is an exercise in frustration. Wither the simple coloured lines of Civ IV? "Pointiest sticks" is cute, right up until the point you realise you don't have enough information to get the point, or avoid it being pointed into your belly...

And then there's the new additions which seem to only have been included to wind people up; the teeny, tiny "Edit" buttons to rename things. That only work on units after a promotion? That if you chose the promotion upgrade before the rename, is gone again until the next level up? What?? There's strange limitations on automation during turns too. Often I've caught "End Turn" flash up, gone to locate a unit I know should have moved... and yes it still can? Or I've a tonne of fortified units around a city I want to attack, I declare war... and I only get the option to wake one unit before the turn ends? Which keeps being centred on no matter how often I click another unit. Or the Bombard command which you can't just click away from, but have to press B again to turn off first? And ranged units can't capture cities?

The tech tree is also ridiculous now; I've just played 4 games in a row as the Romans on the Earth map, where in every one, I had 4 to 6 cities and no iron spawned anywhere near them. Which meant I could not only not build anything better than Spearmen, but I couldn't conquer any cities because the other special unit, the Ballista, also needed Iron, so it blocked off the required wall breakers. HNNNNGHHH.

And that combat! Oh lord... It wasn't too bad in the demo, but with the amount of units needed to capture even a modest city... it's a nightmare now. You basically have to sacrifice at least one unit, often many more if the land has been deforested around it far more, whilst being grateful that the AI is so dumb it doesn't focus on the ranged troops first to really bork you over.

But... I persevered. The AI's inability to fight properly allowed me to start learning the game as I romped through the early levels. And the Steam achievements were kind of fun to see pop up! I was slowly getting the hang of arranging my waves before they set out to fight more effectively, and reading the terrain to see where I could ambush reinforcements (again, thank you useless AI that doesn't bum rush the archers on nearby hills)... but then...

I got to Prince level, the first Roman attempt without Iron mentioned above. I spawned near the Crimea. I found that Montezuma was nearby, and he betrayed me, attacking past a small City State in the Middle East with just one passable square in front of his own city. I couldn't get enough troops in line of sight to bombard his walls without also angering the City State. Montezuma was quickly begging for peace as I defensively smushed his attempt to invade though, so expecting the worst, I tried to conquer the city state ready for his eventual betrayal in 10 turns. This one "bullying of the weak" though turned the entire world against me.

So I tried again. And again. And in every game at this level, the diplomatic penalties are so harsh that everyone turns against you on the second aggressive action.

WHICH IS JUST RIDICULOUS.

DAMN YOU SHODDY GAME DESIGN DOGPILING

I really, really don't mind the AI getting a production bonus if, as happened in Civ 2 say, it meant huge blocks of alliances rising where you could be a trusted junior partner in them... you don't have to be the hero every time, but fighting a small little front in a huge, ding dong battle was still fun! But it's no fun to have to follow an EXACT pattern of behaviour every single time because if you don't, you just get cheesed out of any kind of friendships at all, as the extra special, extra stinky person everyone's programmed to hate just because...

This is what absolutely killed Civ V for me; which drove me back to these boards to see if there was any way to still have fun with the game, and which having now seen the list of negative modifiers shows I never really can.

SORT IT OUT MAXIS. Because as it currently stands, there's no way in hell I will buy the next expansion.

 

[Aristos]

There will be a patch, but you'll have to pay for it and it'll be called 'Expansion'. I'd wager my life that it won't fix the fop Civ 5 is today, though.



Care to explain, moderator, how he was advocating piracy?

Moderator Action: Since commenting on moderator actions is not allowed in this forum...the answer is: NO.

where the <snip> is, there was something related to that which we cannot see anymore because it was, well, snipped.

Tudo joia, rapaz?

 

[Lone Wolf]

I left it at Monarch level on Civ IV Beyond, when I grew tired of the way the AI was deliberately scripted to dog pile you, and only you, if you started to become too strong;

CivIV didn't have such a mechanics; though there were cases where the diplo interface lied to the player.
CivV AI is, however, insane.

 

[Naokaukodem]

[Civ4 was]an elitist, Min/max, Game Guide following to the letter, or however you want to describe it exercise in manipulating the engine limitations. Whilst it may have pleased the hardcore by offering them a challenge, it robbed the game of spontaneity or emergent experiences; and it forgot that the purpose of a Civ game is not to be an arcade style beat 'em up say (where one must perform the quirkafleeg at the exact pico-second required), but a global playground for people to play at being God-Kings in.

This.

 

[mtrein]

where the <snip> is, there was something related to that which we cannot see anymore because it was, well, snipped.

Tudo joia, rapaz?

Tudo.

Moderators... Always hiding behind the "we do not comment moderator actions in this forum" rule.

Well, iron-fisted moderators, you can stick that up where the sun doesn't shine. Ban me if you will, I couldn't give a toss.

Moderator Action: Be careful what you wish for (though this is a warning, not a ban).

If you have a problem with a moderator action, take it up with the relevant moderator via PM, not via public posts.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[MoonFlare]

Ok, here's a rant. Can't even describe how angry i am now. A lot of patches and DLC's were released. An expansion is coming. But the freaking thing still doesn't have a basic alarm clock! Literally no UI improvements have been made. Is this such a huge thing to implement?! What the hell are those retards at firaxis are thinking?! But that's not all. They somehow managed to dumb down the replay function! This proves that modders are doing a better job at programming. And i could use mods to negate those problems. BUT I CAN'T! This stupid peace of rejected software crashes when i play with mods! Guess they're to busy dumbing down X-COM for simpletons that they have forgotten to actually fix their main game! Is that really hard to do? When did this simple idea of convenience become obsolete?! But that's not the worst part. Most people don't care. They only want new shiny leaderheads, new civilizations, etc. They want quantity over quality. And nobody will even start a thread which the developers will see and react too. A thread like this pop-ups from time to time but it dies really fast because people don't care

 

[Freesmog]

I feel like gaming in general has taken a dive, including movies. It's as if corporations are only trying to make money and satisfy stock expectations, with little regard to game longevity & quality. I can't seem to find good FPS, MMO, TBS, and RPG games. Makes me think of that Idiocracy movie. Seems more important than ever to wait for a game to be released for awhile, read independent reviews (obviously cannot trust review sites), and wait for the game to drop in price! I wouldn't be surprised if the lead developers have been working on other games since Civ5 release.

Ok, here's a rant. Can't even describe how angry i am now. A lot of patches and DLC's were released. An expansion is coming. But the freaking thing still doesn't have a basic alarm clock! Literally no UI improvements have been made. Is this such a huge thing to implement?! What the hell are those retards at firaxis are thinking?! But that's not all. They somehow managed to dumb down the replay function! This proves that modders are doing a better job at programming. And i could use mods to negate those problems. BUT I CAN'T! This stupid peace of rejected software crashes when i play with mods! Guess they're to busy dumbing down X-COM for simpletons that they have forgotten to actually fix their main game! Is that really hard to do? When did this simple idea of convenience become obsolete?! But that's not the worst part. Most people don't care. They only want new shiny leaderheads, new civilizations, etc. They want quantity over quality. And nobody will even start a thread which the developers will see and react too. A thread like this pop-ups from time to time but it dies really fast because people don't care

 

[gaiko]

But it's no fun to have to follow an EXACT pattern of behaviour every single time because if you don't, you just get cheesed out of any kind of friendships at all, as the extra special, extra stinky person everyone's programmed to hate just because...

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

Next time just GS pop-beeline to Stealth. You can do this as any civ, regardless of their "unique ability". To heck with UA, bring on the almighty Stealth bombers to vaporize everybody!

 

[gaiko]

Ok, here's a rant. Can't even describe how angry i am now. A lot of patches and DLC's were released. An expansion is coming. But the freaking thing still doesn't have a basic alarm clock! Literally no UI improvements have been made. Is this such a huge thing to implement?! What the hell are those retards at firaxis are thinking?! But that's not all. They somehow managed to dumb down the replay function! This proves that modders are doing a better job at programming. And i could use mods to negate those problems. BUT I CAN'T! This stupid peace of rejected software crashes when i play with mods! Guess they're to busy dumbing down X-COM for simpletons that they have forgotten to actually fix their main game! Is that really hard to do? When did this simple idea of convenience become obsolete?! But that's not the worst part. Most people don't care. They only want new shiny leaderheads, new civilizations, etc. They want quantity over quality. And nobody will even start a thread which the developers will see and react too. A thread like this pop-ups from time to time but it dies really fast because people don't care

Yeah, the failure to address the UI clunkiness has to be put up there with 1UPT and the every individual AI will will hate you in the end diplomacy as one of the fundamental flaws of the game. Although they may address the diplomacy a bit in the expansion.

 

[gaiko]

I agree - they are really debasing the currency looking for the lowest idiot denominator.

I feel like gaming in general has taken a dive, including movies. It's as if corporations are only trying to make money and satisfy stock expectations, with little regard to game longevity & quality. I can't seem to find good FPS, MMO, TBS, and RPG games. Makes me think of that Idiocracy movie. Seems more important than ever to wait for a game to be released for awhile, read independent reviews (obviously cannot trust review sites), and wait for the game to drop in price! I wouldn't be surprised if the lead developers have been working on other games since Civ5 release.

 

[Txurce]

And i could use mods to negate those problems. BUT I CAN'T!

Apologies for being an upper on this thread, but you can. Check out Gedemon's new mod here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=458569

 

[nitevision]

So I hear G&K is coming out soon. WTH, I thought I had a complete game when I bought Civ V.
Not that I have any problem sticking with Vanilla Civ V, but I have a feeling G&K will be the new vanilla, especially since critical gameplay elements will be introduced.

I don't like this. Not at all.

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

so is civ5 playable yet?

 

[Stormfalcon1970]

Bought Civ V and all available DLC almost a year ago....more or less....couldn't get into it. No matter how hard I tried.

Friends kept telling me to, "Forget about Civ and treat it like a completely different game".

I want to play a new Civilization game and you're telling me........that doesn't make sense at all!!!

 

[Buccaneer]

So I hear G&K is coming out soon. WTH, I thought I had a complete game when I bought Civ V.
Not that I have any problem sticking with Vanilla Civ V, but I have a feeling G&K will be the new vanilla, especially since critical gameplay elements will be introduced.

I don't like this. Not at all.

You have never heard of expansion packs for games? They have making those for decades now, esp. in the Civ series. Welcome to the world of gaming.

 

[smallfish]

so is civ5 playable yet?

I would say "wait for G&K and try it again"

 

[Stormfalcon1970]

I would say "wait for G&K and try it again"

Sounds interesting. Will wait for that.

You have never heard of expansion packs for games? They have making those for decades now, esp. in the Civ series. Welcome to the world of gaming.

Sorry again for ranting in the wrong thread. I really want to like this game.

 

[Freesmog]

You have never heard of expansion packs for games? They have making those for decades now, esp. in the Civ series. Welcome to the world of gaming.

The difference is vanilla Civ4 was decent, and Bts expansion made it better. Vanilla Civ5 sucks, and therefore I highly doubt any expansions are going to fix a broken game (assuming the fundamental design is flawed).

 

[Drakarska]

I sort of disagree. Civ 4 was a radical departure from the first three. Civ 5 seeks to reign in some of the ridiculous things about Civ 4. Civ 5 is far from perfect, and way too easy to win at the highest levels. The big change in Civ 5 is no stacking of units. I'm not sure how realistic this is, maybe they should have limited it to 3 units on a tile? Anyhow, the no-stacking limit keeps AIs from steamrolling you at the highest levels.

I guess its a matter of personal taste. I didn't like Civ 4 from the start, so maybe I never gave it a chance. Civ 5 is a beautiful game, and you can have some great, fun games at middle levels. Too many people seem to be in a hurry to win at deity. There's even some Youtube videos that show you how.

Your right, it is a matter of personal taste. What you call a beautiful game I call a total waste time and money. That's the neat thing about opinions and these forums, they mesh into an ecclectic array of differing viewpoints