Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ

[cyther]

I can't find an official source but Gabe Newell (Managing Director of Valve) is said to have said:

If you right click on a game in Steam, you'll see that you can back up the files yourself. Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available.

We've tested disabling authentication and it works.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Although their is some risk with purchasing online, buying a hard-copy from a retail store also has risks, what if you accidentally break or scratch or lose your disk, then you don't have it anymore, these are all risks that Steam gets rid of, it doesn't just add ways you can lose access to the ability to play your game, but removes some too.

Just to re-iterate, because I don't think you made this point very clear (I wish to talk of civ5 specifically):

If you bought civ5 at the store and your dog ate your disk or your drive snapped it in half when you loaded it at a funny angle, you can still use the serial code provided with the game to download the game from steam just as if it were digital purchase. Just make sure you don't lose that product key - even if you buy the game retail, you still need to consider it as buying a product key (or licence if you want to be pedantic) and not buying the discs.

 

[SlothMD]

Pure rumor.

In the case of Civ V, they've confirmed that it's playable in offline mode. So...if Steam is ever shut down, you'll just have to play Civ in offline mode.

 

[12agnar0k]

If you bought civ5 at the store and your dog ate your disk or your drive snapped it in half when you loaded it at a funny angle, you can still use the serial code provided with the game to download the game from steam just as if it were digital purchase.

If your game isn't a Steam works game then having a physical copy instead of a digital one on Steam carrys risk too.

Indeed this is one of the reasons why I like Steam, it gives you unlimited downloads and installs of your game, even if you dont have the disk anymore, the "code" that comes with games can be lost too because you only ever need to link it with Steam once, (which will need to be done to install and play the game), after that the disk is useful as a physical storeage medium only, and you can have this via steams back-up feature too if you have a cd burner, if you have unlimited internet capabilities, the original DVD may as well be a novelty coaster. Though it will save time on re-installing a game .

If you buy a Steam works game on retail (or digital) you can have both the virtual copy in your library, and a physical copy on disk (create your own disk if digital), the best of both worlds.

 

[Seven05]

I personally have never seen DLC being offered in a retail shop

Wouldn't that make it not DLC?

What happens when Steam goes out of business? What happen in 8 years, will I be able to count on Steam to provide Civ5 still? How many online business are still around from 8 years ago?

Valve (e.g. the Steam people) have been around longer than 8 years. If you use google to search for tin foil and it redirects you to a Yahoo! store which is an affiliate of Amazon.com you will have used three more online businesses that have been around longer than 8 years. Valve, incidentally, is not an online business but rather a business that offers an online service (Steam) so it would be better to compare them to traditional businesses that offer online services.

For those of you worried about modding, I've been modding Steam based games for a while, including games that aren't Steam 'exclusive' and it really isn't any different than modding any other game. The only thing that changes for most is where the files are located and a few (as hinted by 2k Greg for Civ5) allow some extra gadgets through the Steam API. I won't discuss modifying DLC despite working on mods for several games with a lot of DLC. All I will say is that you should treat DLC content respectfully, I'm sure you wouldn't want to go to work for no pay so you shouldn't expect others to do it for you.

 

[Mercade]

Wouldn't that make it not DLC?

Yeah, but I think the game DLC should be used loosely. DLC can also mean "unlock code for stuff already on your hard drive". Basically it's an incremental addition to the game that doesn't quality as an expansion pack.

 

[Souron]

All I will say is that you should treat DLC content respectfully, I'm sure you wouldn't want to go to work for no pay so you shouldn't expect others to do it for you.

The issue isn't about respect, it's about using content, like civilizations, that aren't in the original game, in your own mods. This wasn't a problem in Civ V, because if someone wanted to make a mod with BTS civilizations, they can make a BTS mod. But with DLCs, that doesn't work too well. Having DLC prerequisites for a mod would severely limit who can play the mod, since most people aren't gonna buy every DLC.

 

[Stilgar08]

...I am now going to have to wrassle with myself to pay for the priviledge of having to use a third party to play and upgrade civ5. Frankly I would like to see everyone refuse to do it.
I also recall the many times I have run into post about games bought on Steam and not working properly. That may not have been Steam's problem, but who needs it?

Some of my thoughts exactly. I'm a big Civ-fan from Part I of the series until now, but having Steam as a must is definitely a downer to me! Punishing people NOT downloading illegal stuff is the wrong way IMHO.

For me it's not more comfortable using Steam - It's the one reason I'm still not sure that I should buy ciV and that's a pity!

Data privacy is just one of the many concerns I have about the steam-service. If I don’t want to share it, it’s nobodies business how long I play a game but my own!
Not being able to decide when a software I have bought has to be updated or not is not my understanding of possession! Same for the place I get my Updates from...

Plus I like to have something physical in my hands when spending € 50,- – 60,-, which I can use whenever it pleases me. Because it’s mine!
Furthermore having to reactivate my copy because Steam doesn’t know that it’s still running on the same PC is just an annoyance. And that's just because I changed a screw...

I have bought BTS three times since I had three main places where I was playing games back then and frequently forgot to pack the DVD into my luggage...

I’m fine with Steam and don't want to crusade against it, don’t get me wrong – I already HAVE a Steam Account (no other way to get a game running that came for free with my videocard):
Everyone being unconcerned about those things – go ahead and DL it. But having it as the one-and-only distribution channel is wrong and limitating the customers freedom! ...improve away...

P.S.: Just to keep the flames under control: I’m NOT 200 years old, not paranoid and do have fine internet-access - I just don’t like a) being pushed around when not necessary or b) getting in unnecessary trouble!

 

[basicasic]

I've been playing Civ since 1997 and I definitely am not getting Civ5 because of Steam. I went through hell getting HL2 working with Steam donkeys years ago and have voted with my feet ever since.

Why the hell should I be required to connect to the Internet for the privilege of playing something I've paid for and own! Not to mention having them monitoring my usage and playing time.

No matter how desperate I am to play Civ V I ain't buying it. End of.

 

[Falcan]

I started using steam when Left 4 Dead 2 came out a year ago and I have had nothing but positive experiences with it. During their frequent sales I'v picked up some rather old games that I expected to have problems on Windows 7, but steam patches them automatically and they work fine. I like the features like the friends list, voice chat, auto-patching, and not having to bother with cd's anymore.

 

[scrlk]

Oh no! Steam records my user data, big deal.

Google records user data as well, lets using something else! But wait, Yahoo does it, Microsoft does it, Ask does it. The list goes on.

Why do people want to be so protective about their playing time being recorded? It's not like Valve wants to sell it.

To quote Valve:
'Our on-going goal with Steam is to improve the service we offer customers. We believe that by sharing this data, we'll be able to spot problems earlier, improve the Steam service more efficiently, and ultimately build better products and experiences.'

For those who had trouble with Steam in the past, esp. with HL2 I have some rebuttals:

1. HL2 was a big game

2. Steam was relatively new

3. Nothing on this scale was ever tried before

4. Ergo, problems were to be expected.

Would you rather mess around with CD keys and having the disk in the drive at all times (easily cracked), having 2K enforce something stupidly strict a la Ubisoft or go for the best option, Steam.

 

[craig123]

Plus I like to have something physical in my hands when spending € 50,- – 60,-, which I can use whenever it pleases me. Because it’s mine!
Furthermore having to reactivate my copy because Steam doesn’t know that it’s still running on the same PC is just an annoyance. And that's just because I changed a screw...

You can still buy a physical copy of the game if you like - either in a store or on Amazon, etc.

I have bought BTS three times since I had three main places where I was playing games back then and frequently forgot to pack the DVD into my luggage...

You do realise that with Steam you can load the game onto as many PCs as you like? So why not download the game, load it onto all 3 of your PCs, and not have to worry about losing a DVD. Rather than having to buy it 3 times for €150, just buy it once - Steam will save you €100!

 

[Balerune]

I don't like steam for various reasons but this "dual" platforming of civ 5 is just a bad marketing decision as can be gathered by reading these forums -- it has already split the community up.

Either just hard copy or go steam and hope that they don't go bankrupt like General Motors (a much larger company I believe) or the United States (some economist argue it is already bankrupt)

 

[Wodan]

I don't like steam for various reasons but this "dual" platforming of civ 5 is just a bad marketing decision as can be gathered by reading these forums -- it has already split the community up.

What's this about "dual platforming"? Did I miss something?

Either just hard copy or go steam and hope that they don't go bankrupt like General Motors (a much larger company I believe) or the United States (some economist argue it is already bankrupt)

GM isn't bankrupt. They have posted 2 profitable quarters.

They just had a reality check last year, and had to take out a temp loan from the bank. Heck, it's probably happened to a lot of us on a personal level. Happened to me in... 2002 I think it was. I turned it around.

 

[pawelo]

I pretty much agree with Stilgar, if I want my game date being public it's up to me to decide where and when I do it (pretty sure it'll be in this forum).

I will buy the game, no matter what, however, having 1000+ posts in this thread, and an official sticky thread around shows how questionnable a decision it is.
And it's not about piracy, it's, like Stilgar said, about free choice. If you don't like MSoft, you can work your way round, if you don't like Yah!, you can use something else, if you hate Quicktime, you're free to use another thing to do your stuff etc.

What if you don't like Steam ?
Is there a Cream system around that you could use to play Civ ?
Nope, point.
I'd rather have 2K use their own authentication servers than have a third party doing it and managing my playing profile.

 

[Falcan]

Has there ever been a game where you had free choice over what form of DRM your copy of the game would have?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Has there ever been a game where you had free choice over what form of DRM your copy of the game would have?

Yes. There are games with digital copies having different protection from DVD version.

 

[Sonereal]

Any complaints about modding are unfounded given the existence of the trillions* of Half Life 2, Garry's Mod, Mount and Blade, HOI3, EUIII, and more mods that I've played through Steam. It's just about putting it in the right folder which is pretty much how it's always been.

Exaggeration. Probably only a few dozen. Oh, and a huge Total War mod.

 

[Drakarska]

Any complaints about modding are unfounded given the existence of the trillions* of Half Life 2, Garry's Mod, Mount and Blade, HOI3, EUIII, and more mods that I've played through Steam. It's just about putting it in the right folder which is pretty much how it's always been.

Exaggeration. Probably only a few dozen. Oh, and a huge Total War mod.

You mind giving the links to verify that modding complaints for Civ V are unfounded bro? Because I am more than willing to state that I haven't found any exacting info on the subject. Thanks.

 

[Welnic]

Has there ever been a game where you had free choice over what form of DRM your copy of the game would have?

There was this game called Civ4, I have the D2D version, there was also a DVD version.