Civilization III: Worldwide

[AnthonyBoscia]

Thanks, Wolf! I have not yet tried the method so I haven't seen how it works during revolutions. Never knew that cities could be starved into extinction There are few unhappy buildings in the early game (the Tax Collector comes to mind). Here's the set-up I was considering:

Grassland Plains Hills Forest Desert Flood Mountains Swamp Jungle Tundra Coast Sea Ocean

Base 3 2 1 1 0 4 1 1 1 1 3 2 1
Irrigate/Harbor 2 2 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 2 1 1 1
Total 5 4 1 1 2 6 1 1 1 3 4 3 2
Growth 2 1 -2 -2 -1 3 -2 -2 -2 0 1 0 -1

I started a new game as Egypt and it's pretty good so far. The ancient tech tree is a disaster though and needs much reorganization. I bee-lined for philosophy and got Map Making for free, which I then traded all around. Abu Simbel is about worthless so I didn't build it, but the obelisks are nice. The map settings are Arid-Hot-4 billion years so my cities are in flood plains surrounded by mountains with plenty of cotton. Seems perfect! I have a great third city that happened to be built on iron, also has gold in radius with flood plains and mountains-it is beastly with production.

Russia and Germany declared war on me but they are separated from me by the Greeks, who I made a military alliance with to form a nice comfortable buffer. This was followed by Maghreb and Persia declaring war on me, but only after Persia attacked Greece despite their own alliance against the Russians, and my own alliance with Persia against Maghreb. It's a mess! Fortunately my production rocks and I am pumping out swordsmen, which have been battling Punic elephants. I took a major Maghreb city with both grain and ivory and now my counterattack is in full swing. I missed the Statue of Zeus by one turn and got the Heroic Epic instead, which landed me two leaders so far. Working on Autocracy now and will soon be in the Middle Ages. Did I mention how much I love Sandris' units? They are incredible. I think the old city sets also still hold up very well, but in the future I think it's time to add some more Kyriakos graphics as well.

Anyway it's fun to actually play for once without playtesting.

 

[Yoda Power]

Why are you giving Ocean any stats? In a random map you can never ever get a city with Ocean in it's radius.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

In case they're needed for the Earth map. I haven't gotten to that point yet, so the Earth map could possibly have limited trade routes or deepwater harbors.

 

[timerover51]

Your terrain changes and bonuses look quite a bit like the ones that I use in most of my mods to the game. Interesting.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Don't know why, but my game as the Americans won't load. It gets to 38% and CTD after the "Do you want to send an error report" message.

 

[Gojira54]

Don't know why, but my game as the Americans won't load. It gets to 38% and CTD after the "Do you want to send an error report" message.

That's because our government has been shut down...

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Your terrain changes and bonuses look quite a bit like the ones that I use in most of my mods to the game. Interesting.

These stats have yet to be tested in game yet but they look ok on paper. Hope you had a good visit with your son.

Don't know why, but my game as the Americans won't load. It gets to 38% and CTD after the "Do you want to send an error report" message.

Was that at the start of the game or when loading a save? I haven't seen a CTD since development.

That's because our government has been shut down...

Maybe we can just adjust the luxury slider. Perhaps they could try a sandcrawler?...

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Was that at the start of the game or when loading a save? I haven't seen a CTD since development.

Loading a savegame. If it helps, I was playing as the Americans, and I want to say the year was 1952 AD.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

That's because our government has been shut down...

I wish it was because of this, so I could eventually reload it

 

[Etain]

......

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Tank_Guy#3, I'm trying to determine what could cause the crash. Usually I would suspect a graphics problem but it is unusual that it would happen while loading a save and not at the start of a turn sequence. A few questions came to mind:

-Where are you in the tech tree?
-What other civs are left and are they close in the tech race?
-Has the game been progressively slowing as you hit modern times and more Airports are being built?

I'd like to take more of a look at it if possible. I meant to disable air trade in the last version, and it definitely needs to be done in the next build. I don't mind turn times with harbors but air trade is just overkill.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

-Where are you in the tech tree?

I am researching techs like Radar, Mass Production, etc. I forgot if that's Industrial or Modern.

-What other civs are left and are they close in the tech race?

The other civs are on par with me tech-wise. The other civs remaining are France, Spain, Mongolia, Poland, China, India, and the Swedes(?). Not certain on the last one, but I know the it is Scandinavian.

-Has the game been progressively slowing as you hit modern times and more Airports are being built?

Yes. I admit I have the largest empire in the game (military as well) with about 50 workers to manage per turn (jungle clearing), but I have been building airports in 1-3 cities per turn. In between turn times have been getting slightly longer as well, if relevant.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

I ran a test game through with all late era 3 units from those civs and it ran ok. I'm really thinking it may be the extended air network that's slowing the game to a halt. If you have an autosave, try selling those bad boys and see if it loads. If that doesn't do it, maybe we can think of something else.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Must be something screwy on my end, I just tried reloading the past 4 autosaves and nothing. I'll see if I can find an issue on my end.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

I've been messing with the Era 3 (Industrial and Modern) tech tree on paper. As before, none of this stuff has been put in the biq yet, let alone tested. But I wanted to develop the rhythm of the techs so that each 'mini-era' flows well. On the surface it is similar to the current tech tree but has some important changes. There are batteries of units and buildings that come in waves. This will help the player feel in the time period without stifling their research options.

We start with the early 19th century which is big on growth. The policeman is gone, and the State Police now acts as a Forbidden Palace. The Chem Industry attribute requires Nitrate (formerly saltpeter) in radius. Mid-19th century is the industrial boon, and includes the Rifleman and Cavalry, which is an upgrade to the 18th century cuirassiers. The protected cruiser is an upgrade to the frigate, while monitor (no resources) and ironclad battleship (coal and iron) are direct upgrades from the Ship of the Line. The Sail & Steam ironclads currently in worldwide will now be an era evolution to the ship of the line instead of interim units.

The late 19th/turn of the century has communism and trade union as the backlash against Industrialization with the Collective (reqs Commie gov't) and trade union improvements. Artillery is a new unit, representing late 19th/early 20th rifled breechloaders. This gives a period where riflemen will be the premier offensive and defensive unit (supported by the late Era 2 cannon for fire support). When artillery hits the scene, it will be a powerhouse on offense with medium bombard. Thus a combo of Civ2/Civ 3 artillery which the computer can use while still allowing the player to get that bombardment that we love. The militia/engineer is just a concept at this point: basically old workers would upgrade to militia and engineers would be the new terraformer. Ironclads upgrade to light cruisers, while Dreadnoughts are new units (possibly autoproduced or some other limited method).

Early 20th is fairly unchanged, except now infantry/howizter follows the same path as rifleman/artillery. Infantry will be your #1 offense and defense (so long machine gunners), and then howitzers will take over as #1 in offense. This staggered method will help keep a steady flow of artillery/infantry combos in the field. In the later Wartime tier, the heavy hitters come out like tanks, motorized infantry, and bombers. The fighter-bomber is actually superior to the bomber (with a higher defense and blitz) but requires aluminum. These three air lines will merge into two for most civs in Era 4 except for guys like US & Russia who have more aircraft options.

Total war requires all the big war techs and is a chokepoint to the end of the era. This helps makes sure each of the fancy fighting units have time to bask in the sunshine with their glorious WW2 graphics before they evolve to 1950s stuff in Era 4. The final tier is 1940s techs with some big wonders and the start of the Hegemony race. There will be more tweaking but this set-up complements the new Era 4 which will make much more sense than the current mess.

Nationalism Espionage Steam Engine Scientific Method Health Science Atomic Theory Police Station Diplomat *Textile Mill Theory of Evolution Hospital *Chemical Industry State Police HQ Intelligence Center *Coal Industry Science Academy Battlefield Medicine Clear Jungle Mutual Protection Spy Missions Coal Rifling Corporation Industrialization Steel Railroad
Rifleman *Investment Bank Protected Cruiser Monitor Rail Station
Cavalry Stock Exchange Steamship Battleship Build Railroad Factory *Steel Mill Steel Company Eiffel Tower Labor Union Electricity Communism Refining Steam Turbine Explosives Trade Union Light Cruiser Central Committee Destroyer Dreadnought Artillery
Universal Suffrage Power Plant Collective *Oil Fields Transport Militia
Statute of Liberty Energy Company Communism Oil Naval Yard Engineer
Panama Canal Replaceable Parts Fascism Mass Transit Combustion Flight
Infantry Party HQ Public Transit Submarine Fighter
Cavalry Division Concentration Camp Metro Subway Airport Dictatorship Build Airfield Radio Mass Production Automobile Naval Warfare
Bomber Howitzer Reconnaissance Marine
Anti-Aircraft Rubber *Automotive Industry Aircraft Carrier
Radio Station Hollywood Broadcasting Company Radar Aerial Warfare Mobile Warfare Total War
Heavy Cruiser Fighter-Bomber Tank Strategic Bomber
Anti-Aircraft Battery Aviation Industry Motorized Infantry Paratrooper
Build Radar Station Aluminum Tank Destroyer Mobilization Levels Computers Electronics Macroeconomics Rocketry Fission Think Tank Hydro-Electric United Nations V-2 Nuclear Weapons Program Hegemony Hoover Dam Golden Gate Bridge Rocket Artillery Uranium Reserve Currency Atomic Bomb

Key-
Technologies
Units
Buildings
Great Wonders
Small Wonders
Hegemony
Resources
Worker Actions
Governments
Game Concepts

 

[Wolfshade]

What does mean "collective" bldg for communism? Collective privacy? Collective farming?
The only thing I can imagine is a "collective farming", but I'm not sure what kind of effect it can bring in terms of Civ3.

Also, Atomic Bomb provided with the Rocketry is a bit late (IMHO, for sure) - probably, *Chem Industry could auto-produce ICBMs, and then, with the Rocketry they could be built normally. Bad plan?

Not sure if you didn't see it, but I do remember someone posted an info about land transports (no mistake, exactly "land") - stating the Steph's editor keeps a marker of "Transport" ability for land units, while regular editor removes this marker on saving the .biq file. Probably, this could be a feature for moto-infantry. Just a reminder.
Battleship-Cruiser-Monitor-Steamer level - I don't remember how it organized in the currently available version, but looks like monitor class is redundant here (AI won't use it), or it'll be too specific ("wheeled" coastal ship only). Anyway, it's just a suspicion and question.

Steel Company - IMHO, not very informative and necessary. Never was interested with the Gr Ironworks in the standard game (as it required to be iron + coal in the city radius), looks like this one is the same. Not bad, but not good. Just remembered words by Civ4 lead designer brought here by Kael (FfH Civ4 mod designer, IIRC) - "if you can live without this feature then just remove it".

Surely, these are just questions and comments. I'm not the absolute truth, just observer.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Hey, Wolf. Thanks for the replies.

I am in total agreement that anything that does not have a clear purpose in the game should go. A number of buildings (bath house, concert hall) will disappear, and units (machine guns, anti-tank, hospitallers, etc.) as well. At this point, some buildings here are on probation, so that if they do not perform well, they will be eliminated.

The steel company (as well as energy, agriculture, and aviation Cos.) are a concept I haven't settled on yet. They were originally conceived as Great Wonders which would convey bonuses in production and gold. Another possibility is for them to be small wonders, and be prerequisites for the Hegemony components that come later. They may require a minimum number of resource-related attributes. For example, the energy company would not only require access to oil, but also perhaps three Oil Field attributes which mean they would have to be located in your borders. Nothing settled at this point. I also despised the Ironworks.

I really would like growth to be much stronger in the Industrial and Modern Eras to reflect rapid industrialization. The downside will be much higher costs for units, improvements, and hurrying production. You will need improved infrastructure and access to big resources to compete in the late game.

The monitor may or may not make the final cut. It is a no-resource unit. If you do not have coal, you can upgrade Ships-of-the-Line to monitors. If you have coal and iron, you can make Ironclad battleships.

ICBMs in the 19th century? World War I would be really ugly!

Collective was abbreviated from 'collective farm', yes. No idea what it would do. Trying to think of ways to make Communism a viable government in game.

I read the bit about land transports but still need to see it in action. If used, it will be used specifically as heli-borne air assault infantry in Era 4. I would like Motorised Infantry to be a new unit to reflect not only the transport, but the extra firepower and protection from the unfriendly battlefield.

 

[Wolfshade]

On a hurry, so couple of comments:

I really would like growth to be much stronger in the Industrial and Modern Eras to reflect rapid industrialization. The downside will be much higher costs for units, improvements, and hurrying production. You will need improved infrastructure and access to big resources to compete in the late game.

Yes, I think about how to do it in my scenario as well. And I can tell you what seems (IMHO, surely) to be the root cause of the growth problem in the standard game - there are no new food (and luxury) resources discovered in eras 3-4. Yes, workers jobs times reduced, but there are no resources like wheat, for example, which brings tangible effect to the growth. IMHO, it's possible to use some "advanced" resources like "improved farming", for example. Resources may look like buildings (SOE illustrated this absolutely brilliantly) - like granaries (buildings). It's just an example which quickly came to mind, but this will affect the game as in the eras 1-2 when some cities "explode" with the population.

ICBMs in the 19th century? World War I would be really ugly!

It depends on the tech tree path leading to the A-Bomb (and you can make them very rare with auto-production). I like a lot "alternative" paths for player to choose - which lead to some advantages & drawbacks. You can check this technique in every era of CCM - even in the new screens from Civinator. Shortly saying, player able to choose whether they want to develop (ships and planes) OR (tanks). This makes player thinking about available resources or about what exactly to conquer or how to protect your land and achieve peaceful victory.

Collective was abbreviated from 'collective farm', yes. No idea what it would do.

Auto-produce of slightly improved workers. It'd be great to make them irrigation + road building + clean forests/jungle + plant forests only (no complicated objects as forts, towers, railroads), but I suppose it's impossible to make it with the regular editor, at least. Not sure about the one from Steph, but doubting as well. (if you selected worker jobs partially, then "terraforming" option will be unavailable).
Just thoughts, probably will be helpful. The only thing I'd like to note - I'm not making the discussion just to make it, but I'd like to contribute your mod I already enjoy with some ideas to make it reasonable and clear... and interesting - it's already. Not asking for credits, just asking for fun playing.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Really confused now. I didn't change a thing on my computer, tried loading up the save and it loaded up no issues.

 

[Yoda Power]

Tank_Guy, I only follow this thread on an on and off basis so I'm likely missing something. But could it be that you just have to be more patient when you load your game? I've often had to wait a few minutes before it loads a big save.