Civilization Leader Pass: New DLC most likely coming!

[Linklite]

:Look, if you want more leaders, go to the Steam workshop, and there are currently 1,282 to choose from. For sure, some of them are not very good, and you don't get the custom animations and voice acting, but how much does the animation and voice really add to the game? I have all the voices turned off permanently. I don't need to have every bit of writing on screen read out to me, I'm quite able to read it myself. And though many are unhistorical, you can pick up Bismarck for Germany, Robespierre or Napoleon for France, Zara Yaqob for Ethiopia, Jefferson for the United States, Julius Caesar or Hadrian for Rome, and many more. So I really don't care about a new DLC if all it has is new leaders. I don't need them.

Tell me you play on computer without telling me you play on computer.

 

[kaspergm]

:Look, if you want more leaders, go to the Steam workshop, and there are currently 1,282 to choose from. For sure, some of them are not very good, and you don't get the custom animations and voice acting, but how much does the animation and voice really add to the game? I have all the voices turned off permanently. I don't need to have every bit of writing on screen read out to me, I'm quite able to read it myself. And though many are unhistorical, you can pick up Bismarck for Germany, Robespierre or Napoleon for France, Zara Yaqob for Ethiopia, Jefferson for the United States, Julius Caesar or Hadrian for Rome, and many more. So I really don't care about a new DLC if all it has is new leaders. I don't need them.

I'm not particularly excited about the leaders for their own reasons, but I do hope this will add some new mechanics to the game as well as fix the bugs.

 

[pokiehl]

For those of you wondering why so-and-so isn’t included:

It seems likely to me that the leader choices for this dlc would be impacted by their plans for Civ 7. I doubt they want much repetition with the Civ 7 roster, since presumably we aren’t a decade away from Civ 7’s release.

 

[Potworny]

I see some of you are hoping for bug fixes and AI improvements, and I get that, but I hope with this resurgence we get answers and solutions to the real important stuff like where is the rest of Firaxis logos on leaders, what are the unused-overly-detailed-leaderheads-from-the-SDK-files saying, who is Archie and Frank and where is Atlantis???

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Firaxis likes to do fan service by including past leaders. But Firaxis also doesn't like to include leaders from the same nation and era. All the Civs with multiple leaders have different periods represented, iirc.

Edit: however they are apparently adding Keita. So my argument gets weaker. But that might be down to lack of good options for Mali.

Surprising out of all the GS civs it's Mali that they potentially chose. I would think Hannibal for Phoenicia makes more sense to sell as a separate leader. Not to mention it would give us something in North Africa.

 

[Uberfrog]

Firaxis likes to do fan service by including past leaders. But Firaxis also doesn't like to include leaders from the same nation and era. All the Civs with multiple leaders have different periods represented, iirc.

Except Pericles and Gorgo… Or Genghis and Kublai…

 

[iammaxhailme]

I'm not particularly excited about the leaders for their own reasons, but I do hope this will add some new mechanics to the game as well as fix the bugs.

Same. Bugfix and balance patches are what I'm most excited about, an d maybe we'll actually get some if there's a new DLC pack.

Although since Ludwig is rumored, maybe we'll see a revival of my favorite wonder from Civ V... Neuschansteinn!

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I love how after so many months in hibernation, that the hype train here has fired up so quickly based on one graphic and some rumors

In fairness, it went to override because of the supposed leak, which we don't even know if it's accurate.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Surprising out of all the GS civs it's Mali that they potentially chose. I would think Hannibal for Phoenicia makes more sense to sell as a separate leader. Not to mention it would give us something in North Africa.

I agree. Hannibal makes sense because he would provide a more Carthaginian version of Phoenicia.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The potential return of Sejong also puzzles me because I feel like he would be too redundant with Seondeok being another scientific leader.
What if it's actually Seonjo, who was the Joseon king during the Japanese invasions, coming with the Geobukseon and becomes a more defensive oriented, isolationist leader?

 

[The Kingmaker]

The potential return of Sejong also puzzles me because I feel like he would be too redundant with Seondeok being another scientific leader.
What if it's actually Seonjo, who was the Joseon king during the Japanese invasions, coming with the Geobukseon and becomes a more defensive oriented, isolationist leader?

They had him listed as Yi Do, which was Sejong’s personal name.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

They had him listed as Yi Do, which was Sejong’s personal name.

I realize that but also King Seonjo's personal name is similar, Yi Yeon.
There's been mix ups before, just thought I would point it out.
Of course, there's also a possibility that Sejong doesn't get any science bonuses at all, which to me would be strange.

 

[Evie]

I strongly suspect Firaxis is operating under a One-Steve-Limit, especially for the leaders that are identified only by their first names (the Royals).

Which is probably bad news for the Russian empresses since Civ VI already has a Catherine and English Elizabeth is one of the most iconic leaders in the series, the only leaders who had been in every previous Civ but was not yet in VI, and was an obvious shoe-in for inclusion.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Firaxis likes to do fan service by including past leaders. But Firaxis also doesn't like to include leaders from the same nation and era. All the Civs with multiple leaders have different periods represented, iirc.

Edit: however they are apparently adding Keita. So my argument gets weaker. But that might be down to lack of good options for Mali.

In some cases, you have to pick someone from the same era because the civ only lasted that long. Sundiata was Mansa Musa's great uncle, and is probably going to have an entirely different playstyle. He likely wasn't a Muslim nor a scholar. He was someone who overcame a childhood disability to unite a kingdom. I expect that thematically, it will be somewhat like having Askia back in Malian form.

In another case, Julius Caesar and Trajan are both classical. Theodora and Basil are both medieval.

I expect they didn't choose Elizabeth of Russia because they had already settled on Elizabeth of England, whose pop culture fame supersedes the former and they didn't want to create confusion by having both.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They had him listed as Yi Do, which was Sejong’s personal name.

The Chinese leak listed him as Yi Do, which may be how he is presented in the Chinese localization. The West may still see him as Sejong.

He will obviously also have a science focus like Seondeok, but he probably won't utilize governors to achieve it. My speculation is that he will have a leader unique building for the government plaza (a la Kristina's Queen's Bibliotheque) called The Jade Hall or Hall of Worthies that increases Great Scientist point output.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I realize that but also King Seonjo's personal name is similar, Yi Yeon.
There's been mix ups before, just thought I would point it out.
Of course, there's also a possibility that Sejong doesn't get any science bonuses at all, which to me would be strange.

Something to note.

Consider that there's no reason that they can't swap out abilities. Seondeok could have a new bonus (remember, all of the Science bonuses are primarily located in Korea, not Seondeok), with Sejong having bonuses that Seondeok might have (and this applies to any leader).

Simliar how old Teddy got new abilities with new Teddy getting old Teddy's bonuses, while it was reverse true for Catherine de Medici.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that certain leaders would modify old leader's abilities.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

In another case, Julius Caesar and Trajan are both classical. Theodora and Basil are both medieval.

Despite them being from the same game era, you could argue that they are from a different era in their civ's history such as Caesar was obviously pre-empire Rome and Theodora ruled in the early part of Byzantium history where it was more Roman influenced, rather than the Greek/Macedonian Basil II.

Something to note.

Consider that there's no reason that they can't swap out abilities. Seondeok could have a new bonus (remember, all of the Science bonuses are primarily located in Korea, not Seondeok), with Sejong having bonuses that Seondeok might have (and this applies to any leader).

That's true. I could see Hwarang being reduced to governors just giving culture, instead of also science, and maybe add them as a UU for her.

 

[Navelgazer]

Ok, I'm psyched for this. Lots o' thoughts and I'm not fully caught up on this thread yet, so apologies if I cover something already discussed to death.

Anna Nzinga: Oh me of my this is awesome news. Absolutely no clue how they'll implement her as a leader, since 1.) Kongo's CUA is really strong, and only really balanced by Mvemba's malus against religious victory. Maybe since it's so late in the game cycle they don't care about Civs getting pushed, though, and 2.) Anna's historical role was rooted in her diplomatic strengths. There's potential for that to translate into game mechanics, of course, but how that will synergize with the CUA will be interesting to see.

Lincoln: Another one that's tough to predict based on what he's famous for. (I suspect this is why we haven't gotten him since they moved from Leader Traits to LUAs, honestly.) If I wanted to wildly speculate, I'd guess they'll use the "Team of Rivals" aspect which has become noted in recent years (thanks to the Doris Kearns Goodwin book of the same name, obvs) and do something with Governors/Governor Promotions. Which could make for a very powerful, and flexible, ability if that's the route they decide to take.

Ramesses II: Cool cool cool. I'm on the "pro-Cleopatra" side of things, honestly, though I understand folks not being wild about Egypt currently only being represented by a Ptolemy. Ramesses seems like he'd probably be a builder/conqueror? Hard for me to guess how they'd make that fresh, but a new Egyptian option will be good to have. I still like Cleo though.

Elizabeth I: Honestly, if we're getting another English ruler just give us Liz Truss so I can player her on Marathon speed, please? I kid, I kid. Elizabeth is one of those rulers who can pretty much go in any direction they feel would make England more interesting. Imperialism? Check. Religion? Check. Diplomacy? Check. Trade? MAY I INETEREST YOU- ahem, check. Culture? Obviously check. So really I have no idea here.

As for this Leader Pass pushing back Civ VII, I'd take it more as a sign that Civ VII is taking longer than expected, and that being the case, here are some ideas to tide us over. There are worse things on earth, honestly.

As for other leaders I'd like to see, or at least would find interesting:

Germany: I'd really love to see a Peacecraft-focused Germany, since there are at least a couple of notable examples from history and it's a more interesting and, well, positive aspect to celebrate than the warcraft side, in my opinion. We're not going to get Angela Merkel before some hypothetical Civ XII 50 years from now, which means Bismarck. Bonuses for those "makeshift alliances" perhaps?

Arabia: Harun al-Rashid most likely. One of the Rashidun could be cool but possibly thorny with Shi'a Muslims (I might be off-base about that, though.) Saladin's ability is very interesting and the civ well-designed but I think there are a lot of different ways that one could go here.

Scotland: Mary Stuart, a.k.a. Mary, Queen of Scots. Not the most effective ruler historically, but a fascinating figure (in keeping with the "Big Personalities" maxim for Civ 6 rulers) and there could be an interesting mechanic in Religion/Loyalty akin to Eleanor's culture/loyalty ability.

Willem van Oranje: I like Wilhelmina's inclusion in the game but any alternative to Radio Oranje as an ability would be welcome.

And, of course, Japan, Spain, and Rome could all have fun with new leaders. Russia too but it's hard to feel too excited about playing Russia these days.

 

[Navelgazer]

Oh! And lest I forget, based on the art we're seeing in this "announcement," the character model for Anna Nzinga looks fantastic!

 

[AntSou]

Except Pericles and Gorgo… Or Genghis and Kublai…

Forgot about the latter, though Pericles and Gorgo are a different matter, since they're supposed to represent Athens/Sparta.