Civilization vs Culture
- Thread starter Dida
- Start date
I would say that there is such a thing as "civilized" and "uncivilized" - I also think that how civilized a culture is, is not a value judgment but a simple description of their degree of technological or social complexity relative to the average of that time period. Hence I have no problem describing a culture (ancient or modern) as uncivilized without feeling that I am insulting them.
Bast
Protector of Cats
Yes. But beggars can't be choosers.
Syterion
Voodoo Economist
No, it's not true. Who believes in relative morality these days? Tolerance is important, and recognition of what is morally higher can be present while remaining tolerant.
EnlightenmentHK
Emperor
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 1,479
There is better and worse, good and bad within and between cultures. The culture in which you were raised will certainly affect your ultimate judgment, but there are (or should be) cross-cultural universals and logic and rationalism can be applied to find them. They (logic/rationalism) can also be applied to determine beneficial or counter-productive, good or bad, and better or worse as well. This doesn't mean that everyone will reach the same conclusions in the same way, but a general consensus of fair minded, rational and intelligent people is possible.
I personally abhor relativism of almost every sort. Its excuses and encourages abuse and barbarity. There is not rational justification for institutionalized discrimination and bigotry if one wants to be considered a just and righteous society. 'Its their culture' is not an excuse for rampant repression and corruption. These are not the signs of a different culture. These are the signs of an inferior, and if it gets too extreme, a barbaric culture.
Free expression, civil rights, general equality under the law, the establishment and codification of laws, representative government, etc are superior cultural values to their direct alternatives.
I personally abhor relativism of almost every sort. Its excuses and encourages abuse and barbarity. There is not rational justification for institutionalized discrimination and bigotry if one wants to be considered a just and righteous society. 'Its their culture' is not an excuse for rampant repression and corruption. These are not the signs of a different culture. These are the signs of an inferior, and if it gets too extreme, a barbaric culture.
Free expression, civil rights, general equality under the law, the establishment and codification of laws, representative government, etc are superior cultural values to their direct alternatives.
C~G
Untouchable
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 4,146
There is a problem somewhere...
I'll sign that.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Well, I think there's a lot of confusion about the term "civilization" or "civilized".
In the past, civilization was a term for
a) some kind of unversal civilization, in other words the opposite of primitive tribalism
b) a nation that has existed in the past (Egypt, Persia etc.)
Today, after Huntington, we see that there is more than just one civilization on this planet, but many large, culturally distinct groups of countries that are called civilizations (Western civilization, Islamic civilization, Hindu civilization etc.).
These civilizations are very different in some respects. IMHO the only way how to measure their success is to look at their economic, technological and military achievments. The civilization that is superior to others is obviously better.
And yes, there are still some uncivilized tribals out there.
Cultures are all heterogenous, it's perfectly legitimate to back one part of a culture against another (for example, anti-FGM campaigners in Africa as one more clear-cut example, also wishing for leftwards change in conservative countries). That's the path out of the "absolute relativism" trap without resorting to ethnocentric bigotry.
