Civilization Wishlist for Civ VII

[Zaarin]

Yeah, I'm not sure whether I'd want the game to ship that way, but it's definitely an interesting thought exercise. (For the record, I'm okay with the fact that the Middle East and Europe tend to be overcrowded. They're small areas where a lot of things happened. It's the postcolonial nations that feel gratuitous and Eurocentric to me. Like why add Canada when we could did add a Canadian First Nation? Why add Gran Colombia when we could have Muisca? Why add Australia when we could have Maori? Australia feels particularly Anglocentric to me and is probably the least justifiable civ in the game to me.)

 

[Leucarum]

Yeah, I'm not sure whether I'd want the game to ship that way, but it's definitely an interesting thought exercise. (For the record, I'm okay with the fact that the Middle East and Europe tend to be overcrowded. They're small areas where a lot of things happened. It's the postcolonial nations that feel gratuitous and Eurocentric to me. Like why add Canada when we could did add a Canadian First Nation? Why add Gran Colombia when we could have Muisca? Why add Australia when we could have Maori? Australia feels particularly Anglocentric to me and is probably the least justifiable civ in the game to me.)

It's predominantly demographics I expect. People like to play their own civilisation so I expect Australia and Canada will be well on their way to becoming series staples.

 

[Zaarin]

It's predominantly demographics I expect. People like to play their own civilisation so I expect Australia and Canada will be well on their way to becoming series staples.

I'd more cynically say marketing, but yeah. In some cases, I don't mind. Poland was also likely added as a demographics pull, but I don't mind because I think Polish history is fascinating (plus Poland was a major player in Medieval Eastern Europe). As long as it emphasizes Francophone Canada, I don't mind Canada and Brazil so much, but I really hope we don't see the return of Australia--or before you know it we'll be seeing South Africa, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Wales, St. Kitts and Nevis...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yeah, I'm not sure whether I'd want the game to ship that way, but it's definitely an interesting thought exercise. (For the record, I'm okay with the fact that the Middle East and Europe tend to be overcrowded. They're small areas where a lot of things happened. It's the postcolonial nations that feel gratuitous and Eurocentric to me. Like why add Canada when we could did add a Canadian First Nation? Why add Gran Colombia when we could have Muisca? Why add Australia when we could have Maori? Australia feels particularly Anglocentric to me and is probably the least justifiable civ in the game to me.)

Interesting enough to me the least justifiable civ in the game happens to be Scotland. I didn't always feel this way though, at least not until Gaul was introduced becoming another well "true" Celtic civ. Then unfortunately Scotland to me became a civ which existed even though the niches were already filled with England and it's British design, and introducing Gaul.

I understand why Gaul was introduced because Scotland definitely did not seem Celtic enough in their initial design. Though I was willing to accept them at first in R&F considering that meant the actual Celt blob would be broken up. But I do think that at the end of the day if we didn't have both Scotland and Gaul, we probably could have gotten a civ from either North Africa or a second Native American civ somewhere.

Though I'm perfectly fine with consolidating them into one Irish civ for Civ VII.

 

[Zaarin]

Interesting enough to me the least justifiable civ in the game happens to be Scotland. I didn't always feel this way though, at least not until Gaul was introduced becoming another well "true" Celtic civ. Then unfortunately Scotland to me became a civ which existed even though the niches were already filled with England and it's British design, and introducing Gaul.

I understand why Gaul was introduced because Scotland definitely did not seem Celtic enough in their initial design. Though I was willing to accept them at first in R&F considering that meant the actual Celt blob would be broken up. But I do think that at the end of the day if we didn't have both Scotland and Gaul, we probably could have gotten a civ from either North Africa or a second Native American civ somewhere.

Though I'm perfectly fine with consolidating them into one Irish civ for Civ VII.

I think a Scotland civ could be justified, but Civ6's Scotland was horribly designed on many levels so that it came out feeling like a second British civ. In every way, an Irish civ is preferable, but an interesting Scottish civ that didn't overlap with England (especially a less British England) would be possible. Whereas culturally Australia just has no niche in the game beyond filling a hole in the TSL map, which isn't enough justification for me to include a third Anglo civ. IMO throw a city-state there to cover the TSL gap.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think a Scotland civ could be justified, but Civ6's Scotland was horribly designed on many levels so that it came out feeling like a second British civ. In every way, an Irish civ is preferable, but an interesting Scottish civ that didn't overlap with England (especially a less British England) would be possible.

I agree. It's not Scotland itself, but the design of it which makes it the least justifiable, in my opinion. Though I would argue that if Scotland was designed to be less British, I would then feel Gaul might have not been needed.

 

[Leucarum]

Mechanically, Canada, Australia and Scotland are three of my favourite civs - even if time and rules changes have not been kind to Scotland. So regardless of whether there are more deserving civs I'd still like to see all 3.

 

[Zaarin]

I agree. It's not Scotland itself, but the design of it which makes it the least justifiable, in my opinion. Though I would argue that if Scotland was designed to be less British, I would then feel Gaul might have not been needed.

Even if Scotland were better designed, it would still either by a Norse-Gaelic civilization or a stealth Norman civilization so I still feel like Gaul fills a different niche, especially since the connection between the Celts and the Gaels/Brythons wasn't made until the 18th century--no one in 14th century Scotland thought of themselves as a "Celt." Granted, they screwed up the Gaulish civ, too, by choosing a non-Gaulish leader who looks like a cosplayer.

Mechanically, Canada, Australia and Scotland are three of my favourite civs - even if time and rules changes have not been kind to Scotland. So regardless of whether there are more deserving civs I'd still like to see all 3.

Similar mechanics could be given to more interesting civs, just like Civ6 Russia stole Civ5 Shoshone's landgrab ability.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Mechanically, Canada, Australia and Scotland are three of my favourite civs - even if time and rules changes have not been kind to Scotland. So regardless of whether there are more deserving civs I'd still like to see all 3.

Completely redo Robert's ability, which to me is the worst in the game, to something better and to me they at least get a pass.

I also don't mind the Golf Course either. If I was better at modding though I'd change it to where they could build their golf courses in different civs granting them gold and amenities. Every golf course that you have would gain +1 culture for every golf course built in another civ as well as the gold and amenity bonuses. At least that would make them more interesting and reflect the idea of golf tourism more.

Similar mechanics could be given to more interesting civs, just like Civ6 Russia stole Civ5 Shoshone's landgrab ability.

Watch Russia get tundra farming in Civ VII.

 

[Zaarin]

Watch Russia get tundra farming in Civ VII.

Probably. Listen, Firaxis, taiga is good for two things: hunting and timber. Tundra is absolutely useless. Let it be the garbage tier terrain that it is. Also the inhabited parts of Russia are not in the tundra.

(I mean, Civ6 Russia's tundra ability is super fun. It's just dumb and completely unjustifiable. )

 

[BuchiTaton]

Probably. Listen, Firaxis, taiga is good for two things: hunting and timber. Tundra is absolutely useless. Let it be the garbage tier terrain that it is. Also the inhabited parts of Russia are not in the tundra.

(I mean, Civ6 Russia's tundra ability is super fun. It's just dumb and completely unjustifiable. )

I think the closer to "farming" on the artic are the finnougrian and tungusic peoples and their reindeer breeding tradition. Another reason to add the Jurchen/Manchus.

Now I am very conflicted with the Central Asia dilemma, because I really like Hephtalites and the Gurkani as two different points of Central Asia history. Still I am tempted by the idea of Timurids and Mughals as separated civs just for the sake of have both their distinctive blue+beige (timurids) and terracota+white (mughals) architecture.

 

[Zaarin]

Still I am tempted by the idea of Timurids and Mughals as separated civs just for the sake of have both their distinctive blue+beige (timurids) and terracota+white (mughals) architecture.

I feel your pain. I want Uzbekistan just for the turquoise domes (though I could probably get those from a Persian civ).

 

[Xandinho]

Interesting enough to me the least justifiable civ in the game happens to be Scotland. I didn't always feel this way though, at least not until Gaul was introduced becoming another well "true" Celtic civ. Then unfortunately Scotland to me became a civ which existed even though the niches were already filled with England and it's British design, and introducing Gaul.

I understand why Gaul was introduced because Scotland definitely did not seem Celtic enough in their initial design. Though I was willing to accept them at first in R&F considering that meant the actual Celt blob would be broken up. But I do think that at the end of the day if we didn't have both Scotland and Gaul, we probably could have gotten a civ from either North Africa or a second Native American civ somewhere.

Though I'm perfectly fine with consolidating them into one Irish civ for Civ VII.

For me too, I've always found Scotland unnecessary in many ways, since there were better Celtic representations. Not mention that its design doesn't help (golf courses? meh! Why not a medieval fortress or something? and Robert the Bruce's ability that is practically non-existent? ). If scotland was better designed, it might pique my interest more, but a civ that's all about amenities doesn't pique my interest (I have similar complaints about the way Korea is designed, all about science? meh!).

 

[Zaarin]

I have similar complaints about the way Korea is designed, all about science? meh!

Korea's status as the eternal science civ frustrates me so much because that's not even particularly characteristic of Korea's history. Korea had a big tech boom in the 90s so now it's the science civ, marginally justified by the brief period of scientific blossoming it had under Sejong. Korea should be a culture/turtle civ, maybe with a side of religion (at the risk of starting to look like Byzantium with gunpowder).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Korea's status as the eternal science civ frustrates me so much because that's not even particularly characteristic of Korea's history. Korea had a big tech boom in the 90s so now it's the science civ, marginally justified by the brief period of scientific blossoming it had under Sejong. Korea should be a culture/turtle civ, maybe with a side of religion (at the risk of starting to look like Byzantium with gunpowder).

I personally don't mind Korea as a science civ, considering it's not like we got a lot of them anyways. Still I think a mixture of culture and science with being a turtle civ would suit them well.

While there at it make Greece a blend of science and culture as well.

 

[Krajzen]

The most overdue designs are
- economic America
- scientific Greece
- cultural Soain
- NOT cultural France
- economic or scientific England
- economic China
- NOT scientific Korea
- NOT hurr industrial agressive militarist Germany (especially scientific, but I'd also kill for cultural)
- NOT hurr exansionist Achaemenid Oersia with Immortal unit (especially cultural or scientific Islamic)
- India that doesn't suck, doesn't have 'fast worker' unique unit (lol), elephant, Gandhi, mediocre buildings, worst music in the game, terrible abilities built only about stereotypes - religion or overpopulation, Mughals who are arguably separate civ blended into it, civ5 intro text mentioning 'extreme poverty' etc
- not military Zulu - impi - ikanda, which can honestly be impossible because for the love of God I couldn't find anything remarkable about them in any other area, can we just not have them once?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Korea may be economic as much as cultural. Though religious design would be the most unorthodox, it olayed a major role in the soread of Buddhism.

Yeah though you can also argue that almost every other place in South and East Asia contributed to the spread of Buddhism just as much or more.

 

[Zaarin]

- NOT hurr industrial agressive militarist Germany (especially scientific, but I'd also kill for cultural)

I would love to see a cultural/scientific Germany led by Rudolf II.

- NOT hurr exansionist Achaemenid Oersia with Immortal unit (especially cultural or scientific Islamic)

While it's still Achaemenid and still has expansionist elements and Immortals, Civ6's Persia is a great culture civ.

Yeah though you can also argue that almost every other place in South and East Asia contributed to the spread of Buddhism just as much or more.

China's contribution was persecuting Buddhists so that the Buddhist monks went to Korea who in turn spread Buddhism to Japan.

 

[Leucarum]

Alright. Here's a tall-order wishlist. The option to tailor civs down a couple of paths by choosing a set of abilities. Either at the start or even better maybe when you pick your first government. That way you could be going through your game and then decide if you wanted cultural or science Korea for example...

 

[moysturfurmer]

Governor/Satrap focused Persia (or a Persia that lets you instabuild build a better-than-Antioch copy cities you raze)

Great Statesman crazyeye focused America.

France with a Foreign Legion UU that can be built with culture/tourism equivalent

Netherlands with a polder improvement that provides a Tulip luxury resource.

India under Ashoka.

Meiji restoration Japan.

Bismarck.

Palmyra as the oddball darkhorse.

Marcus Aurelius.

Gitarja returns, but with Gajah Mada that has a dual role as Great General/Governor

Yongle/Taizong China (taizong can get great works for winning wars or something, if great works return)

Science/Trade Arabia.

okay while I’m here:

great people can be selected from an era-appropriate pool.

immigration/melting pot mechanics that would allow for civs to build the UIs of cultures they have X% population of

great statesman GP that can generate diplomacy with CSs, fabricate cassus belli, or sue for peace, in addition to their unique abilities.

great people in general all have universal alternate abilities that for their type. Like Great Merchants can cultivate a copy of a certain resources you have traded for (Horses, Elephants, Corn, Timber, etc) or settle in cities as advisors to governors for bonus gold generation for that governor.

Modify governors so they’re not named and limited, allow for multiple governors of a single type to be created (perhaps they get more costly the more of one type you have).

incentivize adopting someone else’s religion, and spreading your own alternate version of it (see Protestantism vs Catholicism vs Othodox, Shia vs Sunni, etc etc).

Streamline the district system so that it’s 6-7 building slots per district, but you just have Urban (production/wealth/culture/infrastructure) Suburban(housing/growth) and Military districts (defense, units., Urban district on the coast would have access to Seaport/Waterpark buildings. Urban district next to/with road to jewels would have access to Jeweler building etc. Most wonders could only be constructed in a urban districts as well, to cut down on ghastly tile sprawl.

Ability to make goods out of raw resources.

Paper doll system for leaders so they can change clothing over time based on era, government, culture, etc. because it’d not only be nifty, but because it would help you know what a civ is focused on at a glance.

robust character creation tools so we could get more than 3 Alt leaders in the official game this time. To that end, no more voice acting.

Some kind of middle ground between 1UPT and Doomstacks. Maybe 5UPT? Archers + Swordsman would have the melee defense of a swordsman but have the choice between ranged attack and melee attack?

Navigable rivers.

Wonders that can be built on mountains and don’t just warp a mountain in out of the ether.

Government to be separated from civic focus, and each subfocus has their own pool of policy cards. (So you could have a Theocratic-Isolationist-Kingdom, or a Free Religion-Open Borders-Communist Regime, or a Atheistic-Meritocratic-Corporate Republic etc).

anyway, sorry, lost the plot there for a bit. I’d also wanna see Henry the V lead England, or if not, bring Lizzie back.