Civilizations in Civ 5: Europe

[Séamas]

Yet the Teutonic Order was more a military organisation that an actual nation...

 

[Vandal Warlord]

My exact reason for calling them a military state, not a nation.

 

[Saim]

Ahem, the Kingdom of Scotland was founded in the Dark Ages after a union of Gaels and Picts and lasted until the first Act of Union.

The High-Kingdom of Ireland was founded around 600-400 BC 9though they didn't really exercise their power until the restoration of the High-Kingship around 200 AD) and the last High-King died in 1198, with various High-Kings occasionaly exerting complete control over the whole island, and sometimes its colonies. Scottish kings even tried once to name themselves High-King and unite Ireland and Scotland in an attempt to crush England. (The last unofficial High-King was the brother of Robert the Bruce)

These two countries existed, the Teutonic Knights can't be considered a civ, as they were an military offshoot of the Holy Roman Empire.

You seem to have misunderstood me - yes, Ireland, Scotland and Lithuania existed. My point about not being a state or people was directed to the Teutonic Knights.

Yes Lituania,Scotland and the Teutonic Order!
Lithuania:
Lithuania was the last of the Pagan Kingdoms in Europe, so it would be nice to see one pagan nation.

Um... hello? Rome and Greece? They began "pagan".

Scotland:
Do I have to explain it?

Yes please. Having Scotland as well as the Celts and English would also be very redundant.

Teutonic Order:
The Teutonic Order was a powerful militay state in the baltic, known for christienising(?) Lithaunia, and still exists today in Vienna, Austria.

As for the Moors, why seperate them?

So we can have a German military order seperate from the two Germanys that we have already - but an entire region of Africa should be lumped into "Moors"? The Almoravids, Almohads, Cordoba and Grenada where all powerful/important enough for their own civs.

 

[Saim]

My exact reason for calling them a military state, not a nation.

The only state they had was a small one in Old Prussia.

"Teutonic" means German - it would be redundant with Germany and the HRE.

 

[squid1111]

I think Scotland could be in. Celts really covers much more.

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Um... hello? Rome and Greece? They began "pagan".

Yes please. Having Scotland as well as the Celts and English would also be very redundant.

So we can have a German military order seperate from the two Germanys that we have already - but an entire region of Africa should be lumped into "Moors"? The Almoravids, Almohads, Cordoba and Grenada where all powerful/important enough for their own civs.

1> excuse me I forgot about the Romans and Greeks.

2> Does it being redundant matter?

3> Fine it does not matter to me, the more civs the better !

 

[Séamas]

The 'Celts' in Civ4 only really represent the continental Celts, and does not represent the post-Roman insular Celts at all.

What of the Gaels (Ireland, Scotland, Man) or the Britons (Wales, Cornwall, Brittany)?

 

[Vandal Warlord]

I would prefer they each had civs

 

[Séamas]

Same here, but I wouldn't be opposed to simply labelling them Gaels, if only because some fat Americans may actually learn that the Irish are Gaelic. You wouldn't believe how many encyclopedias are convinced that the Highland Scots are the only Gaels.

By the way, are the three languages in your title Scots Gaelic, Breton, and Manx?

 

[Saim]

1> excuse me I forgot about the Romans and Greeks.

2> Does it being redundant matter?

3> Fine it does not matter to me, the more civs the better !

Yes, it really does, when the

Malays (Srivijaya and Malacca below)



Thais

(all colored above was once controlled by Thailand)

Tamils (Cholas and Pandyans below)



Assyria


Moors, Libyans or Berbers (Almoravids below)


And more not having a single state - giving the Germans three or four (yay - lets have Germany, Holy Rome, Austria and the Teutonic Knights! In fact, why not Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Bavaria and Prussia as well!) would be pretty pointless.

 

[hellwitch]

I like to see Bulgaria. It can be made as part of the Huns too. The bulgarian khan dynasty began with Atilla around 150 AD. They had wide territories in east Europe(todays in russia and Ukrane) late at the end of 7th century the split and builded 2 big coutries The Volga Bulgarian(conquered by the Russians in the late medieval) and the Dunav Bulgaria whith is nearly on the place of moderd Bulgaria but included a lot more land. The Dunav Bulgaria was a top Europian power through the medieval age. The were one of the most culture, advanced countries by this time (because they needed to counter Bysantium or Seconda Roma's culture ). And because of the rare but very big wars with the Seconda Roma they had to keep and they had the best military power in Europe. As it is know the stoped The Charlemage empire to take east Europe. For Example the border by this time were exaclty in Budapest. The Bulgarian town was called Buda and the Frank town Pest. The fall of the Bulgarian 1st and 2nd tzardom was becase two times outer rulers had the right to be bulgarians Tzars. The Second time was fatal for the country because the Ottoman Sultan Bayazid had a mather - the princes of bulgaria. And thats why most of the bulgarian lord recognized him as a bulgarian ruler and the only few try to resist. The bad thing was that the ottomans were very behind in culture and not very developed which stoped the devepment of the bulgars for 5 decades till they were got freedom 1878 thanks to Russo-Turkish war. The rest of the story is well know - bulgaria was on wrong side in the two WW and no matter that the Bulgarian army didn't loost a battle of even a battle flag in war actions. Thats way now Bulgaria is still small county but doesn't because whole europe will soon be united under the European Union state.

If someone whant to play civ with bulgaria in Civ 3 in Fall of Rome scenario the Hun civ is in fact Bulgaria

 

[Zenon_pt]

Yes, it really does, when the

Malays
Thais
Tamils (Cholas and Pandyans below)
Assyria
Moors, Libyans or Berbers (Almoravids below)

And more not having a single state - giving the Germans three or four (yay - lets have Germany, Holy Rome, Austria and the Teutonic Knights! In fact, why not Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Bavaria and Prussia as well!) would be pretty pointless.

This poll is for Europe!

I'm a strong defender of Thai's civ in the game. And I agree with you about the over-civ's from Germany. The HRE didn't like it. Germany is Germany and the only one that I agree to add is the Austria-Hungary Empire (AHE), but only, if there aren't no more civ's to gain 'points' to the game...

 

[deerhaunter]

i would like to see all of them

 

[KypuTe_TpaBy]

it would be great to see Lithuania in civ5, why? You can read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania
And if you had history in school, you should know, thaht lithuanian forces reached the black sea (Thats Russia!)
Lithuanian and poland ally Jagiellon dynasty


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagiellon_dynasty

 

[Saim]

This poll is for Europe!

True, my only point was that the Teutonic Knights are pointless, even compared to the large number of unrepresented European civs.

I'm a strong defender of Thai's civ in the game. And I agree with you about the over-civ's from Germany. The HRE didn't like it. Germany is Germany and the only one that I agree to add is the Austria-Hungary Empire (AHE), but only, if there aren't no more civ's to gain 'points' to the game...

I would like to see Hungary - with Austria incorporated into Germany (Maria Theresia, Charles V or something else could be a German leader, Vienna would be the second or third German city, etc.).

it would be great to see Lithuania in civ5, why? You can read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania
And if you had history in school, you should know, thaht lithuanian forces reached the black sea (Thats Russia!)
Lithuanian and poland ally Jagiellon dynasty


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagiellon_dynasty

That is pretty big.

Even though I now agree with Lithuania being in the game - I don't see why Australian high school would teach Lithuanian history. Its interesting, sure, but normally Australian history teaches Australian History, as well as Greece, Rome and Britain.

It would be like learning about the Satavahanas, Vijayanagaras or Kushans at an Australian school!

 

[Deep Thought]

IMO, Armenia, (Caucacusian) Georgia and Azerbaijan are all European countries.
I would like to see Armenia in CIV5.

 

[Saim]

Technically they are both (except for Georgia, I think). Armenia and Azerbaijan are more culturally Middle Eastern (since they're Oriental Orthodox - the Christian minority in Egypt, Syria and Iraq as well as a group equal to the Sunnis in Ethiopia and Eritrea - and Muslim), while Georgia is more European (Eastern Orthodox).

 

[RandomPerson]

I kept it pretty much the same as Civ IV, but I did other for the Austro-Hungarian Empire, maybe they could replace HRE if you people hate BK so much.

 

[Optimizer]

One starts to wonder why Spain wasn't in Civ 1.

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Dunno.


ADD VANDAL CIV!!!!