Civs discussion thread

[The Turk]

Well said. I agree that there is too much expansion at the moment in northern Persia by the Hittites and the Persians. I don't know if this justifies the addition of a new civ; I think many problems will be corrected once the settler maps are included.

My main gripe is about how the early civs don't have time to do much before the later civs appear. Phoenicia for example doesn't have time to colonize anything and already Cathage and Rome, etc. appear and control the west sea.

Couldn't agree more, there definetly should be more time alloted to the ancient times, so that the civilizations of ancient greece, phoencia, babylon are able to grow and expand before the big time players come in like Rome, Carthage and Persia.

 

[Steb]

We'll see, for currently the AI expands at random and doesn't have the historical behaviour war/settler maps. Once these are implemented, we'll be able to analyse and improve things like this.

 

[fdgsgds]

We'll see, for currently the AI expands at random and doesn't have the historical behaviour war/settler maps. Once these are implemented, we'll be able to analyse and improve things like this.

Does this mean that Persia won't expand into the Ukraine?

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

Yes. Also, things like this will be less common when the stability maps are implemented as well.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I just had an idea: Lower the number of citizens per population point, so that 1 pop isn't 4000 citizens and 2 pop isn't 16000 citizens, etc.
I know it's just a small thing but I'm guessing it's very easy to change so it shouldn't be too much of a problem to include this in the next version or maybe the one after it.

 

[Arkaeyn]

Can you figure out where those numbers are?

 

[BurnEmDown]

Well in the game you can see them if you look at a city screen, they are in the top near the name of the city and the number of population points it has.
If you mean where they are in the files then I have no idea...

 

[Arkaeyn]

I have no idea either in the files, so...this is your chance to get your XML on!

 

[merijn_v1]

We also discussed this on RFCEurope. Maybe you should look their for more information.

 

[Wessel V1]

There are some threads to do that in the main Creation and Customization forum. The formula isn't that hard IIRC.

 

[Panopticon]

It's in CvCity.cpp, in a function called getRealPopulation, around line 5300.

The formula is 1000*FLOOR((POP)^2.8) in Vanilla/RFC Europe and 1000*FLOOR((POP)^3.2) in RFC. It seems that the historical maximum population of any city before 600 AD was 1.2 million, during the Golden Age of Rome. I would recommend that RFGW use 1000*FLOOR((POP)^2.3) as a first approximation of a formula. It gives high values for relatively small cities, though.

 

[Steb]

It won't work, for Sidon is in the very heart of the Phoenician lands. I think it's right next to their capital of Gebal, thus it will almost never be founded. And it would not make any historical sense to have it flip.

 

[The Turk]

I think that when the Persians spawn they should flip Babylon, since historically the city of Babylon was taken by Persian forces without a fight, and it was here where Emperor Cyrus created the first deceleration of Human Rights

 

[Steb]

Phoenicia is way too small to host two civs. When I did the City names map, I put Gebal (Byblos), Sydwn (Sidon) and Sur (Tyr) right next to each other, so probably only one will be founded in a game. One city is enough to represent Phoenicia... So imagine two civs. Besides, Phoenicia spawns in 3000 BC, at the same time as Egypt and Babylon, and centuries before the Hittites.

Concerning Israel, I agree it could be removed, but that's not likely to happen. It is a popular civ: many people, including myself, want to see it in the game.

I would also like to point out that I'm pretty sure the final civ list is decided.

I think that when the Persians spawn they should flip Babylon, since historically the city of Babylon was taken by Persian forces without a fight, and it was here where Emperor Cyrus created the first deceleration of Human Rights

You can't have the capital flip! It would be horrible for gameplay. With enough skill and effort, every civ should be playable from their spawn until the end (and that's a problem for Etruria...).

 

[Arkaeyn]

Rhye has mentioned to me how he sees Israel as the mod's One City Challenge civ, and put that way, it makes a lot of sense. I still dunno about Etruria, though.

 

[Arkaeyn]

There's no shortage of potential replacement civs if something were to get replaced, but Rhye hasn't demonstrated any willingness to do so.

 

[Rhye]

how is Etruria going recently? And Rome, does it develop?
I believe we can find some suitable goals and balancent for Etruria if we brainstorm.

 

[Steb]

Last time I played, them, they were horrible. You don't have time to achieve anything before Rome spawns, and also, their is no copper or iron, so you're stuck to building archers while everyone becomes immensely more advanced than you and eventually destroys you with superior units. Thus I think they should actually have some metal in their core area.

Losing no cities to Rome is an appropriate (and obvious) goal. I also suggest preventing any Greek colonies in the western Mediterranean (Italy to Gibraltar) to reflect their conflicts with the Phoceans; they could then somehow cooperate with Carthage to dominate the coasts. As a third one, something less military would be good, but I don't know much about Etruscan culture...

 

[Arkaeyn]

We haven't really focused on UHVs at all yet (and I think that's a good thing, given the state of the mod). A Punic War-based goal for Carthage seems like a no-brainer, though.

What is our Etruscan window? How many turns do we expect them to be in the game, and how many turns do they have before the Romans spawn?

 

[BurnEmDown]

For a Carthage UHV, Maybe a control X wines by Y, then in Italy there will be enough wines for this UHV so a player could try and control Italy or settles around the med for the occasional wine?