Classic 33: Pre-Game Discussion

[AlanH]

Hmm. There are 6 tiles that look workable within the expanded radius of the current start location, including a couple of riverside ones. That'll keep a primitive town busy for a few thousand years. And who knows, those worker turns to clear a jungle could be halved if we're industrious. Moving one turn is a major decision in Classic. You've need a *very* serious excuse to go nomadic for 100 years or more.

Worker NE is as far as I'm going to speculate until I see some more info.

 

[HighDesert]

My initial reaction is settler-West, worker-NE. Maximize the look.

Now that ainwood has us thinking about moving the settler around, there won't be a settler factory to be found. I can hear him giggling all the way from the bottom of the Earth.

 

[Dynamic]

I make some map models and the visible curve of the river (N) may be only if river begins on the tile N,NE and flow to NW.

 

[alamo]

Doesn't it have to flow S for us to see it?

Yeah, you could get by at the starting spot. How many people going to settle and send worker to BG?

 

[zagnut]

Aeson: I must admit, that as hard as I strain my eyes I can see no river bend to the west. Have you been drinking that orange soda again?

 

[scoutsout]

My thoughts: Worker roads, settler south. Insta-clear jungle, start on a warrior to go over the mountain. Send warriors out to find a site for a settler factory, and build a settler factory in the second city.

 

[ainwood]

I guess a warm, wet map was always going to generate a lot of jungle. And to think I was just trying to give your little citizens a nice warm place with lots of pretty water-feature terrains like waterfalls. :sigh:

 

[AlanH]

My thoughts: Worker roads, settler south. Insta-clear jungle, start on a warrior to go over the mountain. Send warriors out to find a site for a settler factory, and build a settler factory in the second city.

Dangerous! My guess is you're swapping six workable tiles for three or four, with more jungle in your radius. Staying put you know you've two river tiles. Moving south there may be none.

 

[scoutsout]

Dangerous! My guess is you're swapping six workable tiles for three or four, with more jungle in your radius. Staying put you know you've two river tiles. Moving south there may be none.

Okay...so the nomadic settler is dangerous...insta-clearing the jungle is dangerous... plopping the settler on the starting tile "just like the stupid AI would do" appears to be the only safe bet here...

...at least...

...until one of the shaolin monks of this game de-lurks and shows us where the breadcrumbs lead....

 

[alamo]

Are you sure the N-NW tile will be a river tile? That river could end right where we see it.

Yes, it is a nice warm,wet world. However, there are organized barbarians out there, and the difficulty is more than warlord.

 

[AlanH]

Are you sure the N-NW tile will be a river tile? That river could end right where we see it.

It's a river and it may end on the mountain. But it will flow between two tiles. And those tiles must both be in the 21 tile radius of a city on the start tile.

 

[Xevious]

I've done some playing around with rivers in the editor. Rivers are located on the corners where tiles meet. The 4 tiles that touch that corner all get the 1 gold bonus. If there is river on two adjacent corners, then you'll see them connected on the map. As far as I can tell from the map, the N and NE mountain tiles are on the river, as well as NxNW, 2N, NxNE, and 2NE. That should mean 3 decent riverside settling spots, all of them visible from the north mountain. I plan to move the worker NE first. Depending on what I see, I will move the settler either N or NW. NW would only be in the case of extremely unfriendly territory uncovered by worker.

As AlanH has pointed out, settling in place isn't horrible, as you would have river tiles to work. My problem with the start position is that those river tiles are beyond a mountain. That's a lot of extra time to build a road, or lost movement time if you don't.

 

[AlanH]

If a river ends at a corner you don't get the bonus on all four adjacent tiles. I have a case in our current Jumpmasters SG. If you like I'll post a screenshot showing the terrain yields for the four tiles.

 

[bed_head7]

Hmm. There are 6 tiles that look workable within the expanded radius of the current start location, including a couple of riverside ones. That'll keep a primitive town busy for a few thousand years. And who knows, those worker turns to clear a jungle could be halved if we're industrious. Moving one turn is a major decision in Classic. You've need a *very* serious excuse to go nomadic for 100 years or more.

Worker NE is as far as I'm going to speculate until I see some more info.

Why is moving a bigger deal in Classic than it is in Conquests?

 

[Xevious]

Nope, I got it now. I was looking at how I could assign river in the editor, but not actually checking it in game. I see now that single corner rivers, while shown in the editor, don't show in the game when loaded. So from the screenshot, the most we could say is the N tile and NxNE tile are getting river bonus. The NxNW tile would only get bonus if the river continues from the north tip of the north tile, correct?

 

[Aeson]

Standing on a BG in this situation makes a move worthwhile. No fresh water would mean no growing to past size 6 (and getting use of the extra shield) for quite a while. If you want to found at the start, I think E is the best bet. S works too, if you want to keep the city small and just get Settlers/Workers out whenever you're going to grow past size 2 or 3.

Looking again, I don't see the river E either. Been getting too much sun I guess...

 

[Denniz]

Hmm. There are 6 tiles that look workable within the expanded radius of the current start location, including a couple of riverside ones. That'll keep a primitive town busy for a few thousand years. And who knows, those worker turns to clear a jungle could be halved if we're industrious. Moving one turn is a major decision in Classic. You've need a *very* serious excuse to go nomadic for 100 years or more.

Why is moving a bigger deal in Classic than it is in Conquests?

I second that question.

In both 31 and 32, I believe alot of people moved, include some of the top players?

For anyone, how does the level of difficulty play on the move decision? i.e. If we are Emperor this time. (We're due aren't we?)

 

[Singularity]

I think the best move is to first move the Worker to the NE mountain. Then move the Settler to the north mountain. I say that because the Settler will have more flexibility to move onto more river squares if she goes to the N as opposed to the NE.

Yes, you are correct Zagnut. And you will further distance yourself from the damn jungles. If I get a choice to avoid them in the start I will embrace it happily. Even though we are industrial we will have the better part of the middleage to clear all those tiles of jungle, At least 10 tiles if I'm correct... The fast corebuild in PTW will be halved with this terrain, that reminds me in many ways of the starting conditions in COTM1.

Workers will probably be the backbone of my units for a very long time in this game. Kind of like the way it was in GOTM17 Carthage on the dreaded Jungle Island - with zero bonusgrass under them, damn u Cracker! I'm glad that Ainwood has kept the random seed of BG on so that we get a BG as a reward from time to time when we're finished with the mammoth task of clearing a jungletile. Alexman and Bamspeedy's timeline from QSC17 is very interesting reading for those of us struggling with early infrastructure/economy/growth.

Oh, and I have a suspicion that the N NW tile with the river might be plains...

So, worker NE - Settler N unless the worker spots nirvana in the NE area

 

[AlanH]

Why is moving a bigger deal in Classic than it is in Conquests?

I don't play Conquests, so I don't know why it would be different, but I trust DaveMcW's judgement when he describes his transfer to Conquests as requiring a change in his attitude to settler moves. So he wasn't upset about moving five or six tiles in COTM2, whereas he would not have considered it in Classic games. Looking at the COTM2 spoilers I'm not even convinced that the long march was entirely justified.

When everything you do in those first turns is magnified so much by the exponential growth factors of the game, I can understand Cracker's attitude - don't move unless you can see a clear and substantial advantage to doing so. Statistically, moving from your start also puts you closer to one or more of your rivals.

 

[AlanH]

I second that question.

In both 31 and 32, I believe alot of people moved, include some of the top players?

I'll move one tile and often do, but you're all looking at a minimum of 2. I'm also not saying I won't do it, I'm just pointing out that there's got to be a *very* good reason for walking that far so I'll move the worker but think hard about what I see. If the immediate view isn't spectacular I'll get on with business where I stand.