Comments/Questions after 1st Cultural win

[Cam_H]

Jason,

I usually set out with a victory condition in mind (so apologies for being unable to provide the answers you're after on that one! ). For me, you've hit the only other condition that I end up switching into Cultural-mode is when I find myself isolated or on a landmass with only one other tribe.

Whakojacko,

I'll usually build a Cathedral of each faith in my Legendary cities, although sometimes one city (typically the Capital) is going to hit Legendary before the other two come in, and therefore it might be missing a Cathedral or two.

Re. Spiritual: The Temples bonus is huge - 'say' four temples in nine cities - that's ... 18 ... no .. 27 ... no ummm ... 36 (!) Temples you're going to build. That's a lot of saved through quick builds (or population! ). I do swap civics a lot - Organised Religion, Free Religion, and Pacifism get chopped and changed a lot. There will probably be a couple of shifts between each of other civic types - when I'm up against the clock to get cities to Legendary status, that's a lot of time saved. Because I tend to play the affable diplomat, sometimes I need to appease leaders by swapping into their favourite civics 'at the drop of a hat' for a few turns too - it's handy to do so at minimal cost.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Question for all the commenters:

Other than games where you say "Hey, I think I'll play a culture game" at before starting, how often do you go for a culture win? More specifically, how often do you go that route when not 'required' to by the geography (e.g. an isolated start, continents map?).

I ask this because most culture-win guides encourage 9-ish cities, and the sooner the better to get those points ticking over.

Well if you're going to do that, why not go the domination route - unless the map dictates otherwise? (Esp. if you have Huayna, whom I saw mentioned above.)

So if all (or at least 64%!) of your opponents are fairly 'getable,' why go for the culture win? Is it just because you're sick of that plant-the-flag movie? At what point do you look at your game and say "Well, this looks like a culture win" or the like?

My background: I am OK but far from great at this game. I play , mostly Prince/Epic/Std size, posting 100-110K 1300-ish domination wins lately (incl. some non-warmongers like Fred & Louis), plus one spiffy win with Cyrus in 1148. I mostly get my butt kicked at Monarch, though I've got a pretty good game going now with Hattie despite not finding horses.

I'd like to try a culture game, but obviously have no feel for knowing when that's the right option, so all advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Jason

Almost always I'll decide to play for a cultural win before I even pick the leader. Its such a different style of play. Usually I try and play a game with a theme or style in mind. Eg a Lakes game where I played culture and limited myself to peaceful defense only with Ghandi. Surrounded by warmongers of course - that was probably the most touch and go game I ever played. Or a highlands map playing aggressive culture (through wonders) with Louis - trying to expand my culture while destroying the culture of others.

I don't play them often - that would get boring. But they make a refreshing change, particularly if you spice it up with homemade rules.

 

[Hawe Hawe]

In my opinion founding religions, getting buildings and wonders are not the crucial points of a cultural game. You will get the infrastructure and also the religions somehow. Temples and Cathedrals are the only exception. Wonders help, but probably you can win cultural victories even without a single worldwonder. (I should try that out!)
A cultural victory is decided by diplomacy. You will have weak military in quantity from the beginning and later also in quality, but well developed cities and high cultural pressure on your neighbors. That makes you a prime target for AI aggressions.
I normally quit if i can't keep peace after renaissance era. Until gunpowder you can often handle small wars, but later you will lose your core cities and thats it.
some advices:
-never adopt your founded religions, if your neighbors don't share them. Organized religion or pacifism is optimal for cultural victories but risking your hindu empire in a war with the neighboring buddists is not worth it.
-trade your happiness resources away: you won't need them later with your temples and theatres and high culture slider.
-don't expand to much. 9 cities is the magic number: 9*3 temples = 9 Cathedrals. But you don't have to build all 9 cities. You will aquire about 2 via culture flip.
- If Montezuma or Alexander are your neighbors get Tenochtitlan or Athens as one of your cultural cities with an immediate rush! You won`t keep them at peace later.
- give in to AI requests for ressources (cancel deals after 10 turns) and change of civics, when you are spiritual, and spend those 5 turns in nationalism or herediatary rule. Together with the cheap temples this diplomatic flexibility makes spiritual the best trait.
- liberalism is the most important tech: 1. emancipation 2. free tech and last but not least: trade it away to everyone immediatly. The AIs will mostly switch to free religion soon. This is the point when you can switch to your state religion and pacifism or organized religion in return.
- an optimal culture empire is compact and isolated on a entire peninsula. Don't squeeze your cities in the center of a populated continent to claim iron where you will earn -4 for "close borders tensions" with many civs.
- open borders with everyone: you want foreign religions in and your own religion to spread outside and good relations.

 

[Indiansmoke]

The easiest cultural win I had was with Montezuma! Founded 3 religions and got a fourth to spread, build 3 cities rushed to iron working captured 3 from Peter, then 1 from Gandi and a barbarian that was close. After that never opened borders, no wars and used cathedrals and the culture slider.
My teching was focused on military so I always had more modern units than the AI, even if I had less it was ebnough to stop them from attacking! I gave in to most of their demands, traded a lot and had 3 enemy cities flip to my high culture. The win was mid 1800 on normal settings monarch.

The key I believe was building the pyramids, without early representation It would not be the same.

 

[madscientist]

Some more comments on culture wins after thinking about it an reviewing my games. Sorry to repeat; I play marathon speed, huge maps, random land, prince level
1) I have played all 36 leaders in warlords on these settings (currently Victoria which will NOT be a cultural win). I have won 7 times by Culture.

2) I have won with Musa (Fin + Spir), HC (Fin + Ind), Louis (Cre + Ind), Qin (Ind + Prot), Roosevelt (Ind + Org), Hatshepsut (Spir + Cre), Agustus (Cre + Org).

3) Agustus and Roosevelt were isolated continants so I had alot of time to relax and build. A) Roosevelt I got most of the stone wonders since I had stone and founded enough religions (2 or 3), his land was fairly poor and I struggled to get 8 cities (You need 4 temples to build a catherdral on these setting). I stayed at peace the entire game, this is one of two games I did not get tanks although I did get to mass media. B)Agustus had greta lans on a smallish continant. Did not build a strong army and almost lost the game to a vicous naval/amphibious assault by Ragnar which took 3 border cities but I was able to protect the three core cities.

4)HC and Hatsehpsut were in the middle of a Pangea map. Both I built the great wall early and it paid off, HC had marble (2 in my fat cross) Hatys had no stone or marble. Neither had any costal cities until late in the game. Ai's struggled with barbs alot while I peacefully teched away and build wonders (did get quite a few from Hats).

5) Musa. Penninsula on a a fractal map (I think it was) with only saladin at my border. Was indecisive whether to attack him or go for culture, finally accepted him as my sugar daaay and gave him gifts, accolades, and loyalty which he returned and saved my but numerous times. I won the cultural victory one turn before Saladin launched. This was my worse performance.

6) Louis, a textbook cultural victory on a continant map (not isolated) which I went for after popping a hut with mysticism turn 1. Decided this was too good to pass up as a culture victory.

7) Qin. This was the best game I played, at least the most enjoyable (I think Louis was faster and scored higher). I had Shaka/Hannibal/Kublai as immediate neighbors, next tier was Montezuma/Tolugawa, the others were not close and non issues but I recall Musa and Ghandi were there since they were dogpiled a good part of the game by other AI's. Got into early war with Hannibal to steal horses, then we settled down totolerate each other the rest of the way. I Bribed Montezuma into early war with Shaka and they were at each other's throats most of the game until I attacked Shaka and left him with a few insignificant cities (he may have vassaled to someone, do not recall). Kublai was a major pain as he attacked out of nowhere and it took 4 wars to neutralize his threat. All this warring was done exclusively with cities outside my core 3 which were building wonders and culture related buildings, as well as running many artists.

Comments about games in general:
1) Only roosevelt found music and it's free great artists first
2) With the exception of Agustus's isoalted start, all eladers were industious or Spiritual. I have tried with philosophical leaders but they either didn't work or I teched so fats I went to space.
3) Creative is not as useless for cultural wins as I have read before. Not as good as you might first assume but definitely third best trais after spiritual/industrious.
4) Best leader in my opinion for cultural wins? Ramses II (spiritual/industrious), Hyuna Capac, and Qin (Industious and UB). Qin's Pagoda (+25% culture) really can turn you into a creative civ once you get it built in that city. Ramses II has the best traits and can spit out religions like crazy by running erly priests with obelisks, He just happens to be good at alot of other things whiich I why I did not go for a cultural victory. HYuan is industrious and has a UB that turns you into a creative civ very early, the financial helps to get a good tech lead.
5) Requirements for cultural wins (at least in my games). Build wonders, at least one in each city, pyramids are really a must although I did not get it an all my games I checked. The great wall gives some early security. Aim for founding three religions if possible, one of the early three (or bulb christianity), research COL early (and do not leave caste system), bulb philosphy with a scientist early. Use the city with the best food sources as your great artist farm. Get to liberalism first, switch to free speech (religion is optional), take nationalism, beeline the culture heavy taj mahal in one of your three cities and but the hermitage in the culture weekest of the three. Once you get the golden age turn the culture slider to 100% for the 16 turns, go to your three cities and max out commercial tiles. This is an amzing boost in culture, switch to research after the golden age, since you got to liberalism first you have atech lead and can afford the lost turns in research. As I said before I swtich the culture slider to 100% fairly late in the game so I can defend myself with an updated army.

Seven games won by culture. Just my recap.

 

[futurehermit]

You've played 36 marathon/huge games

 

[madscientist]

Yep everyone with a different leader.

 

[futurehermit]

that's insane, lol. i find regular marathon games too long, i couldn't imagine huge maps as well how long does one of those games take you to play???

 

[madscientist]

3-7 days each. 44 years old guy with a wife and kids so I do not have school/studying to worry about. I do not watch TV and there is always a family member on the other computer that I talk to while playing. I have found this is more enjoyable than watching TV and I actually get talk more to my family. Weekends I generally get up early, arround 7, which is my quiet time on the computer until the family wakes usually 9ish.

 

[madscientist]

that's insane, lol.

Perhaps, but look at my login name.

 

[futurehermit]

Ha! I thought you were going to say they each take 3-7 weeks That's not too bad I guess I like to play my games in one sitting. I win space in about 4 hrs and dom in about 8 hrs. I go for space now more often because a 4 hr sitting is more plausible than an 8 hr one. Dom i usually try for 2 sittings, but when i have a new sitting the temptation is always there to fire up a new game.

I cannot wait til BtS. Can't wait for the new batch of leaders

 

[jason77024]

Thanks to all for the responses. Seems to confirm my thoughts that it's often pre-determined, otherwise a niche sort of win.