[BNW] Community Deity Game #37 - Siam

beetle

Deity
GOTM Staff
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
6,314
Location
Frederick, MD
CDG 37 – Ramkhamhaeng

Please see the CDG Series Discussion Thread to express yourself if you have remarks and ideas. Some maps in this series use mods. This map uses the DLC map packs, so you will need “Explorers Map Pack”, “Scrambled Nations”, and “Scrambled Continents”, as well as the earlier (and more common) DLC such as “Wonders of the Ancient World”.

Please share your experience playing this map, but if you post in the first page of this thread, use the SPOILER tag if you attach a picture, make a comment about your neighbors, nearby natural wonders, locations of ancient ruins, terrain features, luxes, resources, etc.

Before you download and start playing the map, please take a moment to speculate on your initial thoughts and plans for the game. Which version will you be playing? Will you settle in place? Will you try to found a religion? What are your plans for getting the most from the UA, UB, and UU? What Victory Condition will you be aiming for?

After you play the map, please take the time to post a screen shot relevant to your victory and write about your experience with the map. Could you notice the edits to the map? Did you have any difficulty getting resources? Was this map easier or harder than the typical deity game? What VC did you pursue, and what was your path to victory (or defeat)? What World Wonders did you build? What did you do with religion and how many GP did you faith purchase? How many techs did you steal with spies, and how where you using them towards the end of the game?

The suggested VC for this map is Diplomacy.

Spoiler for starting screen shot :
civ5ss-cdg37siam-t000.jpeg

Spoiler for UA, UB, and UU :

Father Governs Children: Food, Culture, and Faith from Friendly City-States increased by 50%. Unit gifts from Militaristic CS will have more experience than usual.

You can train Naresuan’s Elephant which is stronger (25 v 20) than the Knight which it replaces, but is slower (3 v 4). Further, the Elephant does not require a Horse resource and has a unique promotion which give it a 50% bonus agains other mounted units. This unique promotion is not retained when upgraded to Cavalry.

You can build the Wat which replaces the University but provides +3 culture in addition to the usual benefits.

Spoiler for the map type and other settings :
Map type is Oval with Strategic Balance. Standard size, standard speed, standard number of civs and CS. I used Rotate Start Position to pick an interesting starting location and IGE to clear polar ice and make other modifications. AIs were manually selected.
Spoiler for explanation of † and overview of edits to the map :
Your starting location has been nerfed. Horses and Iron have been reduced to a single resource. Your starting location has also been cleared of any late era resources. The AI civs have the usual benefits from Strategic Balance, but also have at least some late era resources.

Achievements
  1. Spam the UU (6 points available):
    • 1 point for every second elephant online at the same time
  2. Paragon of Enlightenment (5 points available):
    • National Wonders completed: 1 point for the third, and 1 point for every other one after that
  3. Neighborhood Bully (8 points available):
    1. Win Worlds Fair, International Games, or International Space Station (1 point each, 3 points available)
    2. Be the last host, as WC transitions to UN (1 point)
    3. Be the first civ to complete Manhattan or Apollo Projects (2 points available)
    4. Pass World Ideology and World Religion (1 point each, has to be yours of course)
  4. Liberator:
    • 1 point for each recalled civ voting for you as WL
  5. Penalties:
    1. If WF, IG, or ISS never comes up: -1 point each
    2. If you miss building one or more of the guilds: -1 point each
    3. If you never build Manhattan or Apollo Projects: -1 point each
    4. if you download and play this map, but never post in this thread: -10,000 points
Spoiler for links to previous threads in CDG series :
CDG1: Persia, Oct. 31st, 2015, domination, Pangea, hard, map by Consentient
CDG2: Assyria, Nov. 15th, 2015, science, Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient
CDG3: Ethiopia, Dec. 2nd, 2015, culture, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by Consentient
CDG4: Spain, Dec. 17th, 2015, domination, NQ Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient.
CDG5: Indonesia, Jan. 2nd, 2016, culture, NQ Continents, hard, map by Consentient.
CDG6: Zulus, Jan. 15th, 2016, domination, Oval, easy, map by Consentient.
CDG7: Shoshone, Feb. 2nd, 2016, culture, Oval, very easy, map by Enslingkorp.
CDG8: Austria, Feb. 15th, 2016, science, Pangaea, very easy, map by IronfighterXXX.
CDG9: Brazil, Feb. 28th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Blatc.
CDG10: Denmark, March 14th, 2016, domination, Lakes, hard, map by Beetle.
CDG11: Venice, April 1st, 2016, domination, Archipelago, very easy, map by Wild_Woojsha.
CDG12: Byzantium, April 15th, 2016, domination, Continents, very hard, map by Beetle.
CDG13: Inca, April 30th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Shark Diver.
CDG14: Celts, May 18th, 2015, domination or culture, Oval, hard, map by Consentient.
CDG15: America, May 30th, 2016, diplomacy, Mesopotamia, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG16: Sweden, June 14th, 2016, domination or diplomacy, HB Continents, medium, map by Consentient.
CDG17: Germany, July 2nd, 2016, diplomacy, Pangaea, easy, map by Dan Quayle.
CDG18: France, July 14rd, 2016, diplomacy, HB Continents, hard, map by MaxAttack.
CDG19: Ottomans, Aug. 5th, 2016, domination, Continents, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG20: Portugal, Aug. 20th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG21: China, Sept. 9th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by @Dan Quayle.
CDG22: Maya, Oct. 2nd, 2016, domination or science, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by @consentient.
CDG23: Iroquois, Oct. 15th, 2016, domination or culture, NQ Oval, very hard, map by @consentient.
CDG24: Babylon, Nov. 11th, 2016, science, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG25: Arabia, Jan. 15th, 2018, domination, Pangea Plus, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG26: Polynesia, Jan. 29th, 2018, culture, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.
CDG27: Poland, Feb. 18th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG28: Huns, March 4th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, hard, map by @Grendeldef.
CDG29: Korea, March 24th, 2018, science, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.
CDG30: Songhai, April 23rd, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @Grendeldef.
CDG31: Russia, May 10th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @Grendeldef.
CDG32: England, June 9th, 2018, domination, Continents, medium, map by @raider980.
CDG33: Aztec, June 24th, 2018, domination, Lakes, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG34: Rome, Nov. 29th, 2018, domination, HB Continents, hard, map by @beetle.
CDG35: Greece, Dec. 24th, 2018, domination, HB Pangea, very hard, map by @consentient.
CDG36: Japan, Jan. 12th, 2018, domination, Oceania, medium, map by @beetle.

There are three save files attached to this post! In the spirit of the old IV GotM maps: “Players who choose to play in the Challenger class game must overcome an extra set of obstacles built into their game to provide an extra level of challenge.” The Challenger version is what is shown in the starting screen shot.

With the Challenger and Contender maps, the CS have fewer resources.

With the Contender and Adventurer maps, the player starts with a Worker (stacked with the Warrior) and a Scout (stacked with the Settler).

With the Adventurer map, the AI civs have only one Settler and one Worker (instead of the usual two of each).
 

Attachments

Last edited:
I think that the achis don't quite belong to this game or the Japanese have already conquered Siam in the scenario ;) Or maybe I'm just choking on hamberder while zipping covfefe which severely hampers my senses.
 
Last edited:
That would've been my next guess...
 
The last point in achi #5 is excellent.
 
Without moving the Warrior I assume I'll SiP and start working my way up to normal dom game. The handicaps at first don't seem that bad but time will tell if Coal is really hard to get but by that time at a couple of capitals should've been take so there should be some. Arties may be more tempting here than on average but XBs & Stumpies should work fine for long.
 
Nice starting shot. I've never played Siam before, mainly because I wasn't sure what to do with their UA. With a goal of a Diplo victory that gives me some direction so that will help. I guess Tradition, but then with the modifications you're going to need to expand.
 
Quick look at this as I spent more time on cooking the Genghis map than playing.the Japan game.

Spoiler Start T10 :

SiP, Warrior got a ruin upgrade, killed Chinenese starting Settler onT8 and paused to check the settings if this was intended or not. Couldn't find anything of the sort but good thing that I did since I somehow was thinking the map was a Donut, not Oval so scouting for one will be different.

 
I guess I'll go for an Elephant rush and try to be a bully in a different way
 
SiP, Warrior got a ruin upgrade, killed [snip] starting Settler onT8 and paused to check the settings if this was intended or not.
Hopefully I did not break anything. I ended up doing some round-robin editing. So instead of the two starting settlers, the AIs civ started with their cap and a Settler inside. I guess that gave a least one a bit of wanderlust!
 
Hopefully I did not break anything. I guess that gave a least one a bit of wanderlust!

Yup, I don't think anything is broken - occasionally the settlers just are very opportunistic and/or reluctant to settle anywhere near the capital. In this case...

Spoiler up to ~T70 :

I killed her 2nd Settler on T25 heading the same way but at this point I can't see any spot tempting enough for postponing the 2nd so much. I settled my 3rd city by the Lake Vic which seem to have killed off her enthusiasm to go Westward.
Portugal opened Honor which was unfortunate as I was the obvious target so I couldn't do much on Chinese front nor did she send any units so my Archer are just hanging around. ~T55 Maria's Swordsmen filled my horizon even though we have DoF so I sent her to play with Bismarck instead. I don't know where he's but as Maria earlier suggested a co-venture against him she was willing & most likely nearby.
I'm also friends with Harun which Cathy doesn't appreciate but I don't see a war imminent while others are neutral.

The major issue I have here is the (almost total) lack of CS quests. So far I've cleared two camps, sent a Caravan and connected iron which resulted next to nothing.

4C Liberty - nothing new here. Starting Libs in hope of getting late 80s NC and start a proper war with XBows. I haven't even teched for CBs yet as i need Pikes as meatshields before going for Shanghai and I'd like a much smaller Portuguese army before going that way.

OwN pantheon but I don't think religion is possible though only 2 founded at this point.


 
I'm doing ok so far. Having a hard time getting CS friends and allies though.

Spoiler T150 :
I have just entered into a joint war with Arabia against Germany. Germany was already at war with Portugal and I didn't want him to take her out. Bismark is getting too powerful. So I asked Arabia to go to war against Bismark and to my surprise they agreed. Not sure if that was actually a good idea. Russia is the powerhouse on the map and may just run away with this one.

P.S. I did get Desert Folklore pantheon. And got a religion with Pagodas. The neighboring religion has two buildings too so as long as my capital can keep DF I can generate faith and get lots of buildings.

Spoiler T150 map :
Siam T150.jpg


 
Last edited:
Looking at the Raider's pic I'd like to express a thought. When taking a SS during a game it'd be extremely helpful for a viewer if the pic would show what one is currently researching.

Possibly annoying, probably hard to remember if one plays without anything in top left corner and even more so if it shows what cities are building for example and it blocks some of the map but highly appreciated from this side of the pic as it gives useful information how the game is generally going.
 
Looking at the Raider's pic I'd like to express a thought. When taking a SS during a game it'd be extremely helpful for a viewer if the pic would show what one is currently researching.
Good idea. I re-posted the pic. I wish more screenshots got posted. I like comparing them, especially city placement. Its interesting to see the different city choices; I tend to not build a city unless there is a lux but I've noticed others don't necessarily do that.
 
I wish more screenshots got posted. I like comparing them, especially city placement. Its interesting to see the different city choices;.

QfT and all that sort of things.

I think I'll adopt a new practise of taking a SS after every stint I play and post that with every update. That should make half a dozen pics a game and still leave some room with the usual fallen capital pics.
 
100 turns in.

Spoiler :
Didn't settle in place as I was worried about production. Wandered a bit and ended up settling the hill where Maria's Bowman is in raiders screenshot a few posts up. Only have 3 cities as Catherine has forward settled like crazy. I did manage to settle lake Victoria as I had a warrior in the area when China came to settle, and I guess she wanted the spot I was in and moved away. Stole 1 of her workers, but she's been friendly ever since.

Finished NC around turn 81. Got a religion which I did not expect. At war with Maria right now, mostly bowmen and a couple horses. Should have the capital in 10 turns or so. After that, might, might try and clear out the Russians before moving on China.

Have 2 c/s friends, but no allies right now. Time for that later.
 
This one turned to a very slow game for a reason or another but things are looking better than in the early stages. The main problem I think is sticking with Diplo instead of going Dom as usual.

Spoiler T150 :


T85 NC, T92 Construction so I really wasn't taking names early on, T95 Prophet which I planted instead of founding the 3rd (!) religion as Cathy had the Uni perk and Harun Pagodas & Mosques, T96 Oracle, Liberty GS planted and T104 Machinery at which point I was planning to start doing something useful on Chinese front. Sadly, though Sweden DoWed her, too and to avoid killing her off I made peace without taking a city and used the proceeds to send Maria against Bismarck with Harun. Harun was properly friendly but Maria was not and without any sort of navy taking coastal cities would be a pain so I started building a road rowards Russia.
T108 my 007 went to Lisbon which was supposed to be the Sci pinnacle of the world bu stealing took 17 turns while my illiterate peasants gave techs away after 4 which is some sort of record.
T117 Education and after dumping all own, borrowed & stolen money to CSs by Russian borders DoWed Cathy T119.

t131-moscow-jpg.516072


Apparently the surrounding CSs caused enough logistical confusion in Siberia that taking Moscow and 3 other cities was very easy; 2 puppets & one razed. The peace deal gave a city which I sold to Sweden.


t150-jpg.516073


DoFs with Harun & Maria, Bismarck hates me with passion, Washy & Gustavus little less and Wu offers nice U-turn point for my Caravans. More out of boredom than strategic reasons I'll DoW Washy soon. The XBow war without logistics or range on T150+ won't go anywhere but hopefully it'll give some XP and prevents LToP on US soil.
T142 PP and WC established after that.
 

Attachments

  • T131 Moscow.jpg
    T131 Moscow.jpg
    333 KB · Views: 545
  • T150.jpg
    T150.jpg
    355.8 KB · Views: 436
Last edited:
Spoiler T150

Wow, comparing our T150 screenshots its easy to see why I fail at Deity. And I'm playing the lite version!
  • You have 3X the science: 299 to 101.
  • Your core cities are much larger. Yours: 19, 13, 12, 12 ; Mine: 14, 7, 6, some other small number. Plus you've captured some.
  • You have a lot more units than me but you're able to maintain similar gpt.
  • More culture, more faith, more CS partners.
Whew, I am terrible. :)
 
The modified versions might be easier but not necessarily faster to finish as the AI techs slower and has less money to trade.

Some point by point thoughts:

- I also have more cities and at this point beakers are still mainly about pop though I had Unis filled.
- I think my first 3 CS allies were all Maritime hence I struggled with happiness but also was able to run mines for hammers to build...
- ...more units. I'm always going for a war anyway so I need units at point and earlier they are out the faster they get to logistics & range or cover. Ideally upgraded XBows should be on the verge of getting logistics otherwise those become ineffective very soon. Also, units are needed for camp clearings, preventing AI attacks and surprisingly often preventing AI settlements. One war & one horse unit pillaging TRs can quite a large army and so on
- by T150 I prolly had a Cultural ally as well but I think most of my cpt comes from Moscow and almost all fpt from there as well. CS allies usually need some active measures all time - just spending money is inadequate and expensive.
* units to clear camps and to control where those spawn
* trade your single luxes 1-to-1 to get free connects when the deal runs out
* same thing with iron & horses - even better to sell those to your immediate aggressive neighbours
* pre-build roads on and to CS lands especially in the case the workers are idling
* especially with Siam it's useful to sell your luxes and dump the money on CSs

In short Civ is a pyramid scheme so it's better to get ball rolling asap hence for one my (earlier) reluctance to give a Worker with the Lite versions - the cumulative effect is massive throughout a game.

---

My game ended on T269 as Diplo which was a novelty - I have no idea when was the last time I had a Diplo VC. I almost messed up the end I'm not at all familiar with the Diplo stuff and only very noticed that there were 2 CSs I haven't met - one due to lazy scouting and one due to it being a Portuguese city by the time I met it. Luckily I had enough cash available.

Quick points count 11:

1) 2 as I only had 5 Stumpies saving more horses to Conquistadors
2) 5 9 built, NIA not ready & NVC not even started, these are so rare that I sort of forgot them
3) 5 won WF & IG, ISS never came up. 1st & only with Manhattan & Apollo, WC/UN host since founding.
4) 0 I thought I could give Washy a rebirth but the option didn't come up, didn't bother with Bismarck
5) -1 ISS never came up
 

Attachments

  • T269 diplo VC.jpg
    T269 diplo VC.jpg
    389.5 KB · Views: 138
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom