Compendium of Fake Tech and Wonder Quotes

[KrzTeKILL]

Well Alpha Centauri they're all made up....

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Not sure why this matters, at all.

It's a game... not a history book.

It matters because video games are a form of communication that reach out to millions of people. False information is wrong no matter who the source is. Firaxis didn't communicate to us in any form that the quotes were a joke.

 

[blasto]

Another perspective:

You can't even trust the news, or even a wiki, without it having a layer of biased skewing. History? Forget it.. who wrote that? Where did it come from? Religious text? I can't even tell you the truths to that with out getting banned here so don't get me started.

Civ 6 has at least twice the quotes of any other version.. of course it'll have more inaccuracies. Especially since they already used all the best quotes on previous versions.

I find the quotes and this thread pretty funny.

 

[Gorbles]

It matters because video games are a form of communication that reach out to millions of people. False information is wrong no matter who the source is. Firaxis didn't communicate to us in any form that the quotes were a joke.

What do we define as false information then? At what point during you being immersed in a video game are you able to separate out <this obviously needs taking with a pinch of salt> and <this is obviously an ironclad parallel to the real-world>? I'm not saying I don't see your argument here, but if we're to take this stringently video games in general propagate a whole load of false rules and ideals that could be embedded in the gaming population.

And given that links between more excessive features (violence, etc) haven't ever managed to be proven, you're going to need a similar level of thoroughness to correlate the assumption that this could affect peoples' real-world educations with reality.

 

[OranHarken]

The quotes in this game prove to me beyond any doubt that the people making this game are self hating liberals who want to discredit western contributions to philosophy and culture.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

What do we define as false information then? At what point during you being immersed in a video game are you able to separate out <this obviously needs taking with a pinch of salt> and <this is obviously an ironclad parallel to the real-world>? I'm not saying I don't see your argument here, but if we're to take this stringently video games in general propagate a whole load of false rules and ideals that could be embedded in the gaming population.

And given that links between more excessive features (violence, etc) haven't ever managed to be proven, you're going to need a similar level of thoroughness to correlate the assumption that this could affect peoples' real-world educations with reality.

I agree mostly but there is an implication that this game is based on history. There is no reason for us to believe these quotes are false especially when the sources(names of the people saying the quotes) are given. This is irresponsible on Firaxis behalf. Now I have a reason to assume that all of the civilopedia entries are false.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

The quotes are entirely non-inspiring. The fact that they are also post-truth is just a complete disappointment.

I have been playing Civ for well over 14 years, and I can't fathom the amount of hours logged in all titles 2 - 6 (quotes started in 4 iirc). The test for the quotes is whether or not they are actually listened to. Well....

I have listened to the entire quote when researching a tech for every Civ game up until now. Even if I am hearing it for the 1500th time, I will wait for the quote speech to end before proceeding. However, I find myself skipping quickly past the quotes in 6 now (this is only my 3rd game) because they are just so completely annoying. Even if they were truthful (which they apparently are not), that wouldn't make them any less annoying....

 

[Gorbles]

I agree mostly but there is an implication that this game is based on history. There is no reason for us to believe these quotes are false especially when the sources(names of the people saying the quotes) are given. This is irresponsible on Firaxis behalf. Now I have a reason to assume that all of the civilopedia entries are false.

The game is based on history, but it doesn't model it. Using the Civilopaedia as your basis is a good example / correlary, but you could also argue that being aware of misattributed historical quotes is a good history lesson to learn (a vital one, even). Purely under the reasoning of education, that is.

Every other aspect of the game relies on subverting and straight-up replacing history. I'm not going to lose any sleep should Firaxis decide to redo all of the ones that don't pass muster, but in terms of priority it's way down below even spelling errors in the Civilopaedia in my opinion. Certainly it barely passes qualification as a bug report (compared to anything else in the game that could be reported on).

I guess my tl;dr: would be - what priority would people assign to something like this? It isn't something that will shape the game in the years to come; it's an enhancement. A pretty particular set of enhancements that not only require more budget than other locale-based fixes, but also requires vetting wrt. their replacements. It is certainly not something that I feel would affect overall longevity and enjoyment of the game (barring the few that feel extremely strongly about this. And I'm not saying they're wrong; I'm saying it's a personal evaluation that in the end comes down to a cost-benefit analysis for Firaxis, who will do so based on the percentage of users that arguably benefit from these kinds of improvements).

As usual, I suck at tl;drs.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Actually, I think it really *does* affect the longevity of the game -- the more times you have to hear those stupid (and false) quotes, the less you want to play another game.... just my opinion.

 

[GhostSalsa]

what priority would people assign to something like this?

Well let's bet on success. Let's say the eventual total buys for the game reaches or surpasses V. Whatever value people assign to it now, however many people are soured on the game by quotes constantly sounding out of time or negative, there will be 6-10 times that many later.

Firaxis can fix the quotes now or dish out 6-10 times as much negative brand image later.

So what are the financials here? How much negative experience do they need to inflict on customers before they get their money from Sean Bean back? The answer is none. The money is already gone, they blew it, it's done - and the sooner they put good quotes and voice in, the more positive customer experience they will get out of the (really very cheap if they use a non-celebrity) cost of the fix.

 

[Gorbles]

Why would they redo voice quotes with another actor? Wouldn't they then have to redo all the quotes? Wouldn't that cost more than Sean Bean's cost for individual quotes? Who knows?

Voice actors aren't always treated well in the industry (thankfully they're normally backed-up by a union), so presuming that someone's life job is "cheap" isn't the best assumption, there.

And yes, there might be over time a fixed (or even variable) scalar applied to negative opinion based on quote quality. But six times 1% is still only 6%, whereas six times 10% is 60%. Defining that percentage is the trouble you'd have there.

Actually, I think it really *does* affect the longevity of the game -- the more times you have to hear those stupid (and false) quotes, the less you want to play another game.... just my opinion.

Yeah, it comes down to personal desire and how important we consider it. Sorry for not making that clearer.

Unfortunately (for you, I suspect, not for me), this comes down to a cost-benefit analysis and the minority are unlikely to come out of that equation with a viable business case.

 

[SCBrain]

As I said in another thread, many quotes feel forced or "witty for the sake of wit", not appropriate for the tech or simply just inspiring. When I research something, when my civilization makes a great advancement (Since the tech tree is pretty small anyway so each tech is important) I want to read something inspiring, not something borderline-insipid or dismissive. I honestly try not to think about the quotes too much because they lessen my enjoyment of the whole game on a conceptual level. Like having somebody whisper in your ear "lol u dumb" constantly.

Off topic but related: I really dislike how Peter the Great calls me stupid if I reject his proposals. I don't think the game needs to insult the player.

 

[Miravlix]

Well, great arguments, well not really, how in the hell can an argument be that Firaxis used google and then the users here uses google to claim the quotes is wrong.

Isn't it more likely that Firaxis didn't use google as the primary source and that the truthiness of the internet is flawed so using it to verify stuff is stupid.

 

[CoolLizy]

I myself want to hear a female give the tech quotes. It's about time.

Sigourney Weaver for Civilization VII, please.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I was so looking forward to the new quotes! I've never seen Sean bean act, so I had none of the glee most people probably experienced. What killed all of the joy for me was his reading of the Monty Python/Holy Grail quote about "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government" (or whatever exact quote was used). Who knows who the producer was, or whether Bean had seen the movie, but it is read completely flat - none of the mockery, no attempt to imitate Palin's delivery - just the same flat and earnest voice. Ugh. Why even use it?

 

[Morningcalm]

Yeah, I guess Sean Bean will do the expansion lines. And HOPEFULLY they will be more serious? At least *proportionally* more serious quotes? And hopefully all real quotes?

Sigourney Weaver for Civilization VII, please.

I agree that we need a female voice actor. But I prefer non-American voices for the gravitas.

Perhaps Shohreh Aghdashloo (links to YouTube of her reading)? Her voice is a bit rough but it's rather awesome, giving real gravitas to her lines. And she's been in Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3 and Star Trek Beyond. (She's also an American citizen, though raised in the UK).

Alternatively, if we need male voices, how about Benedict Cumberbatch (links to YouTube Smaug audition)? He would at least be good for the movie quotes (he's a fan of old movies).

(What would be even cooler is if someone made a mod using quotes that have been read by skilled voice actors already, to at least replace the fake quotes before Civ VII).

 

[Gorbles]

I was so looking forward to the new quotes! I've never seen Sean bean act, so I had none of the glee most people probably experienced. What killed all of the joy for me was his reading of the Monty Python/Holy Grail quote about "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government" (or whatever exact quote was used). Who knows who the producer was, or whether Bean had seen the movie, but it is read completely flat - none of the mockery, no attempt to imitate Palin's delivery - just the same flat and earnest voice. Ugh. Why even use it?

Have you considered that he's not trying to be Michael Palin?

 

[CaiusDrewart]

What do we define as false information then? At what point during you being immersed in a video game are you able to separate out <this obviously needs taking with a pinch of salt> and <this is obviously an ironclad parallel to the real-world>? I'm not saying I don't see your argument here, but if we're to take this stringently video games in general propagate a whole load of false rules and ideals that could be embedded in the gaming population.

And given that links between more excessive features (violence, etc) haven't ever managed to be proven, you're going to need a similar level of thoroughness to correlate the assumption that this could affect peoples' real-world educations with reality.

At least as far as the quotes are concerned, the game is clearly telling the player that this is a true fact, that X person really said this. There's no ambiguity there at all.

Is it the end of the world that Civilization is spreading a bit of misinformation? No, but it's a bit of a shame, and the fact is that the number of fake tech quotes could easily have been zero. It is not remotely difficult to find inspiring, humorous, or profound observations on human society that are properly sourced and authenticated. That Firaxis didn't bother to do so is just lazy.

Well, great arguments, well not really, how in the hell can an argument be that Firaxis used google and then the users here uses google to claim the quotes is wrong.

Isn't it more likely that Firaxis didn't use google as the primary source and that the truthiness of the internet is flawed so using it to verify stuff is stupid.

This is an absurd argument. You seem to be saying "if you both used the internet, neither of you can be more right" and then also saying "well Firaxis probably didn't use the internet." First, Firaxis definitely used google to get a lot of the tech quotes. A ton of tech quotes are on the first page of a "[tech name] quote" google search, and many of them are otherwise completely obscure (e.g., the quote for Chichen Itza). I do not think this is a coincidence. And I'm pretty sure lot of these quotes do not exist beyond the bounds of the internet (e.g., the quotes for Cartography and Archery).

As to the point that I can't use the internet to debunk fake information on the internet--of course I can! Obviously, the internet can be used well or badly in acquiring knowledge. Firaxis did not use it carefully.

Anyway, for all these quotes, you can for yourself see how I established that they were fake. Look at the Cartography one--I explained in detail how Firaxis got it on this thread's first post. I provided links and everything. I think you'll be convinced.

 

[PhilBowles]

Well, great arguments, well not really, how in the hell can an argument be that Firaxis used google and then the users here uses google to claim the quotes is wrong.

Isn't it more likely that Firaxis didn't use google as the primary source and that the truthiness of the internet is flawed so using it to verify stuff is stupid.

There's using Google, and there's using Google. I didn't go into any depth but I looked for obvious common sense associations - Orville Wright doesn't show up in an immediate list of quotes about flying but guess what? It's a piece about flying associated with the invention of aircraft so why not google ... Orville Wright, an originator of powered flight? In this case they even reused this one, quite possibly because Civ IV's Wiki entry for flight shows up early in results of a search.

Looking for a better quote about the Roman empire that gets the same message across? It's trivial to google 'Decline and Fall' - it's not a poorly-known book. And it's fair to assume a modicum of historical background knowledge from the people working on this particular series.

etc. etc.

The truly bizarre ones are the ones where they do appear to have done some research and ended up with worse options and in one case with a quote that can be construed as actively offensive - you aren't going to get to Biblical quotes about the Queen of Sheba by searching for Great Zimbabwe. On the other hand, Great Zimbabwe has a Wikipedia page and that actually includes a quote.

You also need to go out of your way to get a terrible Kilimanjaro quote when just typing in the mountain's name returns a glut of Hemingway quotes (mostly unrelated, since all are from a story collection called The Snows of Kilimanjaro, most of which - including those from the titular story past the first paragraph - have nothing at all to do with Kilimanjaro). You need only go slightly deeper to ask who first climbed the thing, and hey presto you get to Hans Meyer.

 

[blasto]

So what's the possible argument of copy write violation vs libel?