Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
AFAIK and in my experience, the benefits of these two wonders vanish under state property. All my cities' maintenance is capped at 6 GPT under SP, 3 if they have a courthouse.
Condensed tips for beginners?
- Thread starter Roger_Mellie
- Start date
iamnleth
Warlord
A quick question: I'm working on founding Judaism as my religion as Elizabeth on Prince. I was doing a test game and I managed to found it on 1660 BC. I'm just wondering if this was cutting it too close. I don't want other AI to beat me to it. Do I need to research it faster or is this a safe year?
My research path was The Wheel>Pottery>Mysticism>Masonry>Monotheism. Do I have room to fit Bronze Working in there before Monotheism while still maintaining a guarantee that I found Judaism?
My research path was The Wheel>Pottery>Mysticism>Masonry>Monotheism. Do I have room to fit Bronze Working in there before Monotheism while still maintaining a guarantee that I found Judaism?
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
You left out an important detail: what was the game speed?
Beyond that, founding any religion, especially one of the earliest three, is a big crap shoot, so if you really are determined to have it, you'd best go after it quickly.
Myself, I don't like pursuing an early religion unless I start with Mysticism, and sometimes not even then. I'd rather wait for the neighbours to found one, so I can go take the holy city from them.
Failing that--I've had starts where no one on my continent founds a religion--I'll build the Oracle for Code of Laws or use my first Great Scientist to lightbulb Philosophy, then enjoy a big Confucian or Taoist love-fest.
iamnleth
Warlord
I might try pursuing that strategy, as trying to grab an early religion with Elizabeth causes the rest of my research to slow. Anyway, the speed I'm playing on is Epic. I apologize for leaving that out.
Also, what is a safe year for building The Oracle on prince at Normal and Epic speeds? The help is much appreciated.
Also, what is a safe year for building The Oracle on prince at Normal and Epic speeds? The help is much appreciated.
Oracle on Prince gets built by AI sometime between 1000BC and 600BC - most of the time. So the only truly safe time is to complete it before 1000BC, although I think 900BC should usually nab it (earlier Oracle is rare) - even 800BC is still a reasonable shot.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I don't usually go by years for this--when I'm forced to think about it, I'd have to say that I base my assumed chance at an early wonder on the techs and resources I have.
Usually, playing as England, I tend to research Bronze Working, then a few worker techs like Agriculture and the Wheel. I found my 2nd city to snag copper for Axemen, who I use for early anti-barb defense. After that I start researching Mysticism -> Polytheism -> Priesthood. The second city will start building Stonehenge as soon as its able to do so. The capital will continue producing units, Workers, and a couple more Settlers.
If Marble is nearby, I'll found an early city to claim it (and research Masonry). Otherwise, I hope the 2nd city has forests. I won't usually chop more than one forest for Stonehenge, but I may chop 2 or 3 for the Oracle, especially without marble.
This tends to work in most games, with obvious variations. I'll insert worker techs based upon nearby resources. For example, if there are cows in one of the early cities' fat crosses, I'll research Animal Husbandry after Agriculture. Hunting, though, I will put off, even if there are campable resources nearby. Other worker techs I pick up after Priesthood.
I would say the best early unit is the axeman. If you have copper or iron (? not sure) I think you can build them. They get advantage from attacking other melee units.
CS slingshot is no longer available in Warlods 2.08. Or rather, Oracle-based CS slingshot is so hard as to make it impossible on all but the lowest levels.
As Civil Service allows for Bureaucracy civi, early access to that is extremely powerful. Early on, your capitol is likely to produce most of your commerce (or hammers in some cases), and multipliers that affect over half your total empire are truly powerful.
If you can't make the slingshot but have to research CS by normal means, it'll come in play way later, at a time when you have several cities and the Bureaucracy multipliers don't really affect half your empire anymore - your capitol is still likely to be your greatest city (if not, it might be good to move the capitol), but alone it won't be half the output of your empire.
As Civil Service allows for Bureaucracy civi, early access to that is extremely powerful. Early on, your capitol is likely to produce most of your commerce (or hammers in some cases), and multipliers that affect over half your total empire are truly powerful.
If you can't make the slingshot but have to research CS by normal means, it'll come in play way later, at a time when you have several cities and the Bureaucracy multipliers don't really affect half your empire anymore - your capitol is still likely to be your greatest city (if not, it might be good to move the capitol), but alone it won't be half the output of your empire.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
In addition to enabling the powerful Bureaucracy civic, Civil Service also enables chain irrigation, allowing you to irrigate tiles not next to water sources so your cities can grow larger more quickly. And it is also one of two techs required to build one of the best Medieval units, Macemen (the other being Machinery).
So if you get CS early via a slingshot (either by using the Oracle or a Great Prophet), you get many benefits early on, and a potential jump on your AI competitor in several regards.
But it is nearly impossible now in Warlords 2.08.
So if you get CS early via a slingshot (either by using the Oracle or a Great Prophet), you get many benefits early on, and a potential jump on your AI competitor in several regards.
But it is nearly impossible now in Warlords 2.08.
Thank you for explaining so quicky. "the other being Machinery"?? What do you mean? How would you choose a path so that u can sync the finishing of the oracle with finishing of CoL?
"the other being Machinery" referred to the earlier note about CS being one of the two techs required for Macemen. Meaning: you need both CS and Machinery to build Macemen.
The other question (how to sync research of CoL with building of Oracle) I can't answer. Been quite a while since I did that - and at that time I hardly considered synchronizing those to occur on the same turn.
The other question (how to sync research of CoL with building of Oracle) I can't answer. Been quite a while since I did that - and at that time I hardly considered synchronizing those to occur on the same turn.
it's not a big deal to perfectly sync CoL and Oracle. you just need CoL before Oracle.
The easiest way is to research really fast and build really fast too (chopping) until the Oracle is 1 turn from completion, if you already have CoL, fine let it finish. If you don't switch the build to something else (granary, troops, whatever) until CoL is 1 turn from completion too, then switch back to the oracle.
Quite easy on vanilla.
In warlords 2.08, you need mathematics too, so you don't even need to build fast... 99% of the games, you won't be able to research CoL and mathematics before oracle is built in a faraway land.
Exception?
philo leader running 2 scientists and lightbulbing mathematics maybe?
Or being on a very agressive game, with noone going for priesthood?
The easiest way is to research really fast and build really fast too (chopping) until the Oracle is 1 turn from completion, if you already have CoL, fine let it finish. If you don't switch the build to something else (granary, troops, whatever) until CoL is 1 turn from completion too, then switch back to the oracle.
Quite easy on vanilla.
In warlords 2.08, you need mathematics too, so you don't even need to build fast... 99% of the games, you won't be able to research CoL and mathematics before oracle is built in a faraway land.
Exception?
philo leader running 2 scientists and lightbulbing mathematics maybe?
Or being on a very agressive game, with noone going for priesthood?
Mack_Jagger
Warlord
Hello, hello Mack_Jagger, resident of Sweden signing in. Just a quick question that I haven't been able to find the answer to in this forum. Roading tiles? Is there any point in doing it? By that I mean is there any point in roading 20 plots of cottages in my sccience city? I'm doing it just to be sure but maybe I'm just wasting time. I have just taken the step from noble to prince and need all the time I can get, he he.
no
it's useless to road all cottages
Just road enough to
- connect resources,
- connect cities
You may find it useful to road the rest later, when your workers are busy watching you troops moving, but this shouldn't happen very soon (= not before 1000 AD for example)
Mack_Jagger
Warlord
Oh thanks for the information. By the way, I got another road related question. Have I got it wrong, or is it so that strategic resources like horses and iron has to be connected with the "road to command", even if it's located within the fat cross. Sometimes when I build the mine or the pasture and hit return I don't get the message that I got the resources hooked up. And when I check in the city window for the specific city, or my capital since I allways connect my cities as soon as possible, it's not there. Very confusing. If the resorces is by the river it connects with the city at once. I was of that understanding that everything within tha fat cross was immediatly accesible?
right, the resources (strategic or not) need to be connected to the trade network to be accessible in the cities = give their benefits.
no the fat cross has nothing to do with it
The river can connect the resource provided
- the resource is on the river
- the city is on the same river (or the river leads to a road that leads to the city)
Mack_Jagger
Warlord
Thanks a bunch for the information. By the way, got my first victory on Prince today. Sent a ship to space in the 1940s.
I have no advice to offer as I am a beginner. I just want to thank you all for this thread and the advice. I just finished 2 hours of reading this and cut-and-paste to a word doc so I can keep it next to me when I play. Your suggestions are most appreciated.
Last night a put in another 4+ hours with the Spanish with a Continents map on Chieftan setting. This time I grabbed my religion first - Hinduism - and then focused on other skills. I was able to spread my religion to every city in my country. I specialized my capital as a GP producer (I think), I have two costal cities focused on commerce and three cities producing units. After removing Montezuma from the world (most enjoyable), I stopped for the night. I do have a few questions as a result of last night's game:
1. Researching techs - do I need to research every tech in the game? After founding Hinduism, I decided to leave many of the other religion based techs alone. Will there come a point where I have to research them (in order to evolve)? How long should I wait on a tech that obsoletes a wonder? Last night I chop rushed Stonehenge very early, so I waited forever on the calendar tech (in order to not obsolete the wonder. Did I need to do this? What impact will researching the obsoleting tech have?
2. Religions - what is the best way to maximize a founded religion? What buildings do I need? I founded Hinduism, built a temple and monastery in the founding city, have it as my state religion and spread it throughout my cities. I also used a GP to build the Hindu holy temple (???) in the founding city. Do I need a temple in every city? What else do I need to do to reap the benefits of religion?
3. Specialized Cities - what resources are best utilized for a unit building city (hammers)? for a commerce city (cottages)? GP generator (food)? Do I need to add other resources to the specialized cities? For example: in a unit producing city, do I need food and commerce or should I maximize hammers (choosing a watermill +1H instead of a farm +1F)? What building are best for each type of city?
4. Stacking - is it better to make war with stacks or to surround your enemy? If I have 6 units attacking a city, should I stack them or should I occupy every tile around the city? Is there a way to group the units so they always move together?
5. Legendary cities - I need help in building my cities up to legendary. What is the basic plan to creating legendary cities - population count? specialists? great people? wonders? I noticed that in the same number of turns my civ with all 7 religions grew my three main cities much bigger in overall score than the three cities in last night's game where I focused more on building military units. Obviously there are other things I need to do to improve those cities scores.
Sorry for all the questions. Many of these may not be easy to answer but I'm guessing many beginners may have similar questions. This game is quite involved and highly addictive (three hours passed quite quickly during the joy that was the eradication of Montezuma last night). I am about halfway through the manual (working my way through slowly). I have also finished this thread and many others on this site, yet I find I still have many questions.
Thanks in advance for all your help.
1. Researching techs - do I need to research every tech in the game? After founding Hinduism, I decided to leave many of the other religion based techs alone. Will there come a point where I have to research them (in order to evolve)? How long should I wait on a tech that obsoletes a wonder? Last night I chop rushed Stonehenge very early, so I waited forever on the calendar tech (in order to not obsolete the wonder. Did I need to do this? What impact will researching the obsoleting tech have?
2. Religions - what is the best way to maximize a founded religion? What buildings do I need? I founded Hinduism, built a temple and monastery in the founding city, have it as my state religion and spread it throughout my cities. I also used a GP to build the Hindu holy temple (???) in the founding city. Do I need a temple in every city? What else do I need to do to reap the benefits of religion?
3. Specialized Cities - what resources are best utilized for a unit building city (hammers)? for a commerce city (cottages)? GP generator (food)? Do I need to add other resources to the specialized cities? For example: in a unit producing city, do I need food and commerce or should I maximize hammers (choosing a watermill +1H instead of a farm +1F)? What building are best for each type of city?
4. Stacking - is it better to make war with stacks or to surround your enemy? If I have 6 units attacking a city, should I stack them or should I occupy every tile around the city? Is there a way to group the units so they always move together?
5. Legendary cities - I need help in building my cities up to legendary. What is the basic plan to creating legendary cities - population count? specialists? great people? wonders? I noticed that in the same number of turns my civ with all 7 religions grew my three main cities much bigger in overall score than the three cities in last night's game where I focused more on building military units. Obviously there are other things I need to do to improve those cities scores.
Sorry for all the questions. Many of these may not be easy to answer but I'm guessing many beginners may have similar questions. This game is quite involved and highly addictive (three hours passed quite quickly during the joy that was the eradication of Montezuma last night). I am about halfway through the manual (working my way through slowly). I have also finished this thread and many others on this site, yet I find I still have many questions.
Thanks in advance for all your help.
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