Condensed tips for beginners?

Vassals, what are they good for? Okay you can count in 50 % of their land area to your score, but why not just conquering it? I told one of my vassals what to research, expecting to get that tech as soon as it was researched, hey it's my vassal, I own the guy, right? :king: No, he woldn't even trade it to me since I was his worst enemy.:blush: Is it supposed to work like that? If it is, thats down right stupid. What's the meaning of ordering the vassal what to research if I can't benefit from it.:confused:
 
to make your vassals happy:
gift them a resource
spread your religion to them
force them in the same civics as you
trade with him for resources, or buy his map every now and then.
open borders
start a war with them against someone else.
don't raze to many cities subjugating them.

when he is cautios and higher you can ask for techs.
 
Mack_Jagger said:
Greeneyedzombie. But I can do all that without having them as vassals. What am I missing?
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Not really sure what you mean by that. You mean trading and making them happy without making them vassals?

Vassals will give you their techs when they are cautious when demanded, ore as a favor when pleased/friendly. I think there is 5/10 turn break between demands. Meaning when you demand something they will obey, but they can refuse any other demands for 5/10 turns. In a turn you can only make one demand wich they will have to obey, and then the normal rules apply.

But to me the best benefit of a vassal is when you have a few they can make you new vassals :D without you needing to spend resources on the war.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193747

edit: after reading aelf's or sisitul's thread, it could be that your vassals have a monopoly on the tech. Ai won't trade monopoly techs or techs they are building wonders from. Don't know if that still aplies when they are vassals
 
Greeneyedzombie said:
edit: after reading aelf's or sisitul's thread, it could be that your vassals have a monopoly on the tech. Ai won't trade monopoly techs or techs they are building wonders from. Don't know if that still aplies when they are vassals
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They also will not trade a "game winning" tech to you, such as any tech that enables a space ship part. I don't think they'll trade Mass Media because it enables the UN for a diplomatic victory, but I'm not sure about that.

I don't bother with vassals very often. Their former cities can suffer from "we yearn to rejoin our motherland" unhappiness for a long time. It's often better to just ensure their motherland no longer exists. :goodjob: Then you own all their resources, and your new additional cities will boost you research so you don't need their help.
 
jamuraa said:
I have been looking around for a while, but I can't find a good article on how barbarians work - when do they show up, how does clicking on raging barbarians change their behavior, etc. Is there a good article somewhere on this? I noticed that in different map sizes some of the XML settings that mention barbarians are different, but don't know what they mean.
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Barbarians spawn in the 'fog of war.' That is, any area on the map not visible to any civ. Barbs will never spawn inside your own territory or inside another civ's territory. I believe 'raging barbarians' makes barbs much more numerous and aggressive. Barbarians will gain technology as others civs do (I've seen barb riflemen on terra maps). They can found cities as well, but it takes them a long time to pop their borders. There is a grace period during the beginning of the game so barbs won't enter your cultural borders until around 2000 BC or so.
 
about vassals, I have some kind of liking for those things:
- they follow your diplomacy
- they give you happiness.

So when I'm in a warmongering game (going for conquest or domination or even "diplomation"), I'll try to vassalize my neighbours asap, being in a near permanent state of war.
The first vassal is costing you a lot :
- city maintenance,
- diplomatic demerit for the other AIs,
- happiness penalty in your vassal's former cities (you didn't kill him!).

But the second one not as much :
- your power and your first vassal's power add up vas your second opponent, making him easier to capitulate
- you get a second happiness bonus for a second vassal, but each city only has a happiness penalty for one former owner ;)
- diplomatic demerit isn't as important when you're getting so powerful
- you gain mutual struggle diplo bonus from the second war with your first vassal
- your "number of cities" maintenance is probably already maxed out :lol:

Then the third vassal is really a gift :
- if you traded your military techs to your first 2 vassals and didn't bleed them dry on the money front, the y have upgraded their troops = power to you :). + the techs count for you and for your vassal, making your power absurdly high this way. So the third vassal will face a real force = he will capitulate (depends on personality of course) a lot sooner. Remember that he can not capitulate to your vassals, so you're the only master.
- you now have 3 :) from vassals. The happiness penalty from motherland certainly isn't a problem anymore. (+ you can build up some culture in those cities, and thus get rid of it totally)
- you certainly now have maxed out the "number of city" maintenance.
- your first vassal certainly is pleased now. The second probably isn't as cold as he was.
- no one will dare attack you anymore, and you can demand all their gold every 10 turns :lol:.

If you attack a peacemonger after that, you may vassalize him by just capturing one city (and waiting 10 turns, so he accepts to talk to you).

I love it when all the world except one guy is my vassal : CONQUEST!
 
I tried that a few times, vassalazing everyone. But near the end there is a real risk that your vassals destroy the civ your at war with within 10 turns. 6 against 1 is real overkill. :)
 
Greeneyedzombie said:
I tried that a few times, vassalazing everyone. But near the end there is a real risk that your vassals destroy the civ your at war with within 10 turns. 6 against 1 is real overkill. :)
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well, it's still a conquest :lol:

My favourite is vassalizing Mansa Musa.
He is such a coward that he'll vassalize faster than anyone else + he is techtrading with you even when annoyed.
Since he capitulates fast, he remains a powerful ally = useful for capitulating the next neighbour.
 
Rancid Sushi said:
Barbarians spawn in the 'fog of war.' That is, any area on the map not visible to any civ. Barbs will never spawn inside your own territory or inside another civ's territory. I believe 'raging barbarians' makes barbs much more numerous and aggressive. Barbarians will gain technology as others civs do (I've seen barb riflemen on terra maps). They can found cities as well, but it takes them a long time to pop their borders. There is a grace period during the beginning of the game so barbs won't enter your cultural borders until around 2000 BC or so.
Click to expand...

However, keep in mind that the grace period depends on the difficulty level and other factors. I have seen barbs in 2500BC in an SG.
 
Rancid Sushi said:
Barbarians spawn in the 'fog of war.' That is, any area on the map not visible to any civ. Barbs will never spawn inside your own territory or inside another civ's territory. I believe 'raging barbarians' makes barbs much more numerous and aggressive. Barbarians will gain technology as others civs do (I've seen barb riflemen on terra maps). They can found cities as well, but it takes them a long time to pop their borders. There is a grace period during the beginning of the game so barbs won't enter your cultural borders until around 2000 BC or so.
Click to expand...

Is there any more detailed explanation than this? While they are somewhat random, the randomness is obviously affected by some factors such as how many tiles are in the fog. Will they spawn in undiscovered territory, or only stuff that has been seen and fogged by some civ? I have noticed at the different levels they change quite a bit (Prince to Monarch is much more interesting because of it)
 
barbs can spawn on any tile not visible to any civ at the current moment, whether it's fog of war or simply never epxlored. there are different factors for the different levels, you can see some numbers in Civ4HandicapInfo.xml under Assets/Gameinfo. for example, iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianUnit is 150 at settler, 25 at diety. what exactly that means, i dunno.
 
I need to ask another noob question. Which wonder is more important for starting up an SE early: Pyramids or the Oracle? Pyramids allows Representation way before Constitution, but an Oracle slingshot to CoL will give me Caste System quicker (and likely Confuscianism). Most of the time I won't be able to build both, so which one is more important for starting an SE that will be effective for the rest of the game?
 
Rancid Sushi said:
I need to ask another noob question. Which wonder is more important for starting up an SE early: Pyramids or the Oracle? Pyramids allows Representation way before Constitution, but an Oracle slingshot to CoL will give me Caste System quicker (and likely Confuscianism). Most of the time I won't be able to build both, so which one is more important for starting an SE that will be effective for the rest of the game?
Click to expand...
I'm not an SE expert, but from what I've seen by playing with the SE in the ALC games, the Pyramids are helpful but not essential to the SE. Caste System is very helpful, but early in the game you may not have the population to take advantage of it. I'd say that having either stone or marble available early would be a deciding factor in choosing these wonders, since the Pyramids are faster with the former and the Oracle faster with the latter.

Then again, from what I've seen and heard of the SE, you want to be warring almost constantly--so I would wager many SE experts would tell you to save the hammers and build more military units instead.
 
Rancid Sushi said:
I need to ask another noob question. Which wonder is more important for starting up an SE early: Pyramids or the Oracle? Pyramids allows Representation way before Constitution, but an Oracle slingshot to CoL will give me Caste System quicker (and likely Confuscianism). Most of the time I won't be able to build both, so which one is more important for starting an SE that will be effective for the rest of the game?
Click to expand...

i'm no expert on early warring so take this with a grain of salt if you go that route. but i do love to disagree with Sisiutil *giggle*. my theory is, all other things being equal (which they never are, type of GPPs, cost of wonder, marble/stone) ... pyramids is better. quicker caste system is great, that's true. but you can research CoL and get to caste system relatively early in the game even without the oracle, even without a trading partner, if you set it as a goal. you'll likely want to, even if you're warring your heart out, for the courthouses. you can't get Representation anything near early in the game except thru the pyramids.

refer again to the first sentence if you think your chances of conquering the pyramids thru war are high. chances of winning that war are of course higher if you spend your hammers building units, but you can't know who's going to build it and if you can reach it soon so ... you see how decisive i am.
 
I can't speak for the SE either, but I've found Pyramids essential for popping out a couple of GEs early on and getting a good start in the tech race. Early Metal Casting and Machinery will put your military way ahead of the competition. It helps to start with stone, of course.
 
Thanks. I suppose I should then bee-line literature and use the GE to build everyone's favorite classical era Barnes & Noble. I did that last time and by the end of the game Corinth was producing 500+ flasks/turn with Caste System, Representation, assorted science buildings/wonders, and its grand total of 14 scientists. :eek:
 
omfg ... I'm on page 8 of this thread and haven't even started on the manual yet ... does anybody have a condensed list of links to the highlights of this thing?
 
Um ... how deep is this rabbit hole?

If I wasn't so discombobulated from the major changes coming from CivIII I feel are punching me in the face, I'd prolly be playing instead of reading right now.

BTW, you 1k+ post guys have the most helpful signatures ever ... many thanx.
 
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