Convert or Die?

[Katheryn]

edit: this (now useless) x-post brought to you by the letter "y"

Everything is cyclical... like seasons... like harvests... like terrain, valleys and hills... like days and nights, dormant and alive... apostasy and revival.

 

[Perfection]

Everything is cyclical... like seasons... like harvests... like terrain, valleys and hills... like days and nights, dormant and alive... apostasy and revival.

Entropy ain't.

 

[El_Machinae]

To avoid any confusion; I mean that my cross-post was rendered useless by your post about mine. I edited out my post, which didn't contribute to the conversation after seeing your post.

 

[Tee Kay]

I must note a few historical inaccuracies

1. 613 Persians capture Damascus and Antioch

2. 614 Persians sack Jerusalem

68. 1088 Patzinak Turks begin forming settlements between the Danube and the Balkans

Muslims weren't involved in those.

60. 879 The Seljuk Empire unites Mesapotamia and a large portion of Persia

69. 1090 Granada captured by Yusuf Ibn Tashfin

70. 1091 Cordova is captured by the Almoravids

78. 1012 Berber forces capture Cordova and order that half the population be executed

When you are listing "aggression against the Christians" please refrain from listing aggressions by Muslims against fellow Muslims.

And what about agressions commited vice versa?

 

[mdwh]

These are JEWISH rules, not Christian.

Christianity is an extension of Judiasm but the work of Jesus Christ made these laws inapplicable to Christians.

Christianity has nothing to do with these rules, at all. You do not understand Christianity if you think so.

Perhaps you should explain that to all the Christians out there who quote the old testament when they want to claim something is "immoral"... So whilst you can play the "No true Scotsman" game, we can still direct the comments against the many Christians around the world who *do* endorse the old testament.

And even I agree with you, fine: That just makes Judaism the religion of violence, by your logic.

 

[Katheryn]

Perhaps you should explain that to all the Christians out there who quote the old testament when they want to claim something is "immoral"... So whilst you can play the "No true Scotsman" game, we can still direct the comments against the many Christians around the world who *do* endorse the old testament.

And even I agree with you, fine: That just makes Judaism the religion of violence, by your logic.

I am not saying that Christians do not accept the Old Testament as a part of the Bible. However, the rules in it does not APPLY to them. For the most part, Christians are Gentiles. As such, they would not be subject to Jewish rules, not then and not now.

And the Old Testament is full of other sections, like Psalms - songs or poems; there are calls to repent by the prophets, and admonishments of proverbs. We glean morality - wisdom from these books, but they do not list a set of rules to follow.

And the wars in the Old Testament are simply history. They are in no way an example to follow. Quite the contrary, King David was forbidden to build the Hebrew Temple. God said the David had too much blood on his hands to do so. It was left for his son, Solomon to do so.

 

[Princeps]

They were a response to over 400 years of brutality and forced conversions.

First of all, forced converstions is probably one of the most hilarously mythical claim made about the Muslims. Under circuimstances, Muslims even discourged converstion to Islam, as it was more than a religious thing. non-muslims were taxed more heavily, however they did not need to serve in the army. There were preasured conversions and encouraged conversions, however, I believe the very idea of forced conversion is somewhat doubtful, given something called human nature.

Second of all, Crusades were nothing but raids with a better description in my opinion. It was fought for power and profit.

The Muslim horde destroyed nearly every church in Byzantine,

"the muslim horde" is a word which clearly shows your biased view. Also, you might want to show credible evidence before making such claims, given that it is the first time I've ever heard this.

what we call Turkey today.

It was never called "Byzantine" during it's existence.

Many of the Greek texts were in jeopardy,

Nope. Muslims preserved such texts actually.

like Plato, Socrates and these were later taken back from the Muslims - many like the library at Alexandria, Egypt were destroyed.

There is no evidence that libary at Alexandria was destroyed by the Muslims.

Muslims had built libaries, laboratories, hospitals, clinics, univercities, even observatories and other scientifically important buildings. For example in Baghdad many were raided by the mongols, resulting in a loss of great amout scientific work. Christians burned muslim books in public squares in Spain.

Also sacked was the Christian holy city of Jerusalem, pillaged and destroyed by Muslims.

Umm, yeah. So?

It's called warfare. Why point out Muslim atrocity when everyone did the same? In fact, I think, no one claimed not to do so.