Corporations: Do you use them?

[number51]

A skilled gamer would ask that question every time he built anything.

I must be very unskilled, when I build a temple I am pretty sure it won't destroy my economy.

 

[Peng Qi]

I must be very unskilled, when I build a temple I am pretty sure it won't destroy my economy.

It could if the city is later captured due to lack of adequate defenses.

 

[Lord_Zath]

I'm rather new to using corps, so just wanted to check...

1) spread corps only to cities you need them in at first (i.e. mining inc to a low hammer city)

2) spreading corps to the ai cities gives those cities the same bonuses I get (or do their bonuses depend on the amount of resources they have?)

3) building HQ's in your massively financial city w/wallstreet is a must

4) WTH is a samoflange?

 

[DemonMaster]

First, if I'm not totally wrong here, a corporation bonus and/or penalty is based on the resources that is available to that city.

Second. Corporations are build by free will, they are not mandatory. Okey, I know that the AI can force them on you, but personally I have only experienced a massive invasion of executives once (and I play alot) other that that they can spread to one or two cities.

If you start to realize that if you are going to get something you have to pay something. In the real world, no one is giving anything for free, they all want some payment. So if you like food, then build Sid's Sushi Corporation, then you pay to have more food in that city. If you like culture, then build Sid's Jewelry and pay a sum of gold to have sum of culture in that city. See this like if you like to build things faster, contract a large business to help you out (e.g. the mining corporation). And if you live in a free world (not Mercantilism and State Property) you can be forced to use those contractors (an AI builds the mining corporation in your city. Damn the free market). Then if your state declares that each city should take care of their environment (Environmentalism), then you (just as in real life) has to take care of all the waste that some of the corporations very often leave behind. You never has to choose that civic in the first place (just as in real life in many countries).

I do know that it is dangerous to spread Sid's Jewelry to an AI city, even to a poor and idiotic city, because they can spread it to a big city and the cultural boost can make him win (I have won 1/3 of my BtW games so far thanks to "cultural" corporation). Likewise, the Mining corporation can be dangerous to build in an AI city, he can boost already good production cities and then beat you in the space race.

Some corporations are better than others if you compare it to a standard gaming style. The mining corp. trade off some money to get a boost in hammers (a real winner), Sid's Sushi corp. trade off some money to get food (and thereby bigger and better cities), and Sid's Jewelry corp. trade off some mony to get a boost in culture (if you go here as soon as possible, you will probably win a culture win, depending on resources). The other corporations are sometimes a mix and or strategic and doesn't impress me much, but I musst confess that I have survived the game thanks to the ethanol corp. and the aluminium corp has probably also (even though less so).

Just realize, I don't know what the Wall Street does (and I don't know what a samoflange is either).

 

[Jabarto]

If you start to realize that if you are going to get something you have to pay something. In the real world, no one is giving anything for free, they all want some payment. So if you like food, then build Sid's Sushi Corporation, then you pay to have more food in that city.

Corporations aren't available until late in the game, they require a great person to found, and you need to make a sizeable down payment to spread them, plus the cost of building the executives. Just how expensive do they need to be?

I built a city on a weak cultural border in the late-game. Putting Sid's Sushi in it pushed the border back to a full fat cross and made the city competitive with even my starting cities in a matter of 20-30 turns (I was getting some +12 food and somewhere in the realm of +25 culture from SS).

And this is why I'm beginning to suspect that the map size (or maybe the speed) is the problem. As I said, I have never been able to get anywhere near the number of resources ( I would need something like 45 resources to get that much food form the Sushi Company) that would have such a drastic effect, trade and territory be damned.

 

[DemonMaster]

Corporations aren't available until late in the game, they require a great person to found, and you need to make a sizeable down payment to spread them, plus the cost of building the executives. Just how expensive do they need to be?

Everything in the game depends on who and what style you play. The way I usually play, my micromanagment, the type of building I build in a city, the type I don't, do that I don't think the cost is that much. But I never build (or spread) a corp. if I don't have enough resources (myself), making it worth it. So, no I don't build Sid's Sushi corp. unless I already have alot of sea food (no one will probably trade it to you, if you have Sid's Sushi) and I don't build Civ's Jewelry (I think the name is) if I don't have silver and gold. The cost in such cases in a great person is not worth it.

I sometimes (I like to) play a philosophical leader (hmm, or the trait that gives 100% GP bonus, whatever it is called), in that case I can build corp(s) more often and I use a lower minimum of resources of the type it needs. I usually don't build a corp if I don't have at least 5 or more of the type it needs.

Personally I never spread AI corps. unless it is a strategic corp and I need it, although I have never seen an AI spread a strategic corp to me so this point is rather academic.

If I have a merchant for available then I can sometimes build one of the more important ones anyway (but I do no spread it) just to stop the AI to have it (e.g. Civ's Jewelry, stopping AI cultural winning).

If I'm not the tech leader or if it is a close race, then of course I have to think twice before I build a corp.

In a way, Civ is like an RPG, you have to play your civ based on what land you get. So if I'm not playing a philosophical civ (or whatever the 100% GP trait is called) and I'm not got so much fish and shiny metals, I go another direction for my win. But I never rule out anything in civ just because every building are, whining, whining, not win-win types, some are cost-win types. It all depends on what type of civ player you are, what leader/civ you play, what land you got, and what style you feel like to play for this session.

Of cource I don't build any corp if I don't have/can get, luxury resources (and/or good trade cities), then I usually have State Property (for my safety) and try to win in another way).

 

[Jabarto]

But I never build (or spread) a corp. if I don't have enough resources (myself), making it worth it. So, no I don't build Sid's Sushi corp. unless I already have alot of sea food (no one will probably trade it to you, if you have Sid's Sushi)...

It's not as if I just found the first corporation that I stumble upon and spread it like the plague; I always check my resource total midgame and plan for the corp(s) that will utilize the greatest number of them, but I still haven't gotten results like the ones I've seen mentioned here.

Oh, and I have had people trade me rice, etc. for my corporations even though I already had a source of it, but they don't seem to willing to part with more than one or two.

 

[DemonMaster]

The only corp. that I (almost) always build is civ's jewelry because in the wrong AI hands, it could lead to a quick cultural win. If I have got an artist that is.

I have won 1/3 of my civ games so far in BtW and I have never been a "cultural win" player (for as long as that have been enabled), usually go for the most noble of all victories, the spaceship. I can get very dissappointed when I win culturally even before I have finished Apollo.

 

[tomaalimosh]

no I don't build Sid's Sushi corp. unless I already have alot of sea food (no one will probably trade it to you, if you have Sid's Sushi) and I don't build Civ's Jewelry (I think the name is) if I don't have silver and gold. The cost in such cases in a great person is not worth it.

.

Actually that's not true. The AI will trade duplicate resources for even less than the first (second fish is cheaper than the first). The only requirement is that you keep sushi corporation national, so you are the only demand they have for the resource.
That, and a huge map, can make corporations very worthwhile.

 

[MrCynical]

But I never build (or spread) a corp. if I don't have enough resources (myself), making it worth it. So, no I don't build Sid's Sushi corp. unless I already have alot of sea food (no one will probably trade it to you, if you have Sid's Sushi)

This isn't generally the case. The AI will usually become more willing to trade seafood to you if you have Sushi. It is only if THEY have Sushi that they will refuse to trade seafood, for very obvious reasons.

1) spread corps only to cities you need them in at first (i.e. mining inc to a low hammer city)

2) spreading corps to the ai cities gives those cities the same bonuses I get (or do their bonuses depend on the amount of resources they have?)

3) building HQ's in your massively financial city w/wallstreet is a must

4) WTH is a samoflange?

1)Correct. Spamming them wildy is the most common (and most fatal) mistake people tend to make.

2)A corporation branch in an AI city will give bonuses based on the resources they have, so will not necessarily be the same as the ones you get.

3)Wall Street is a must. Corporation gold output is high enough that the quality of the city is largely unimportant. If you have a shrine city, they may as well go there.

4)I don't have the faintest idea.

 

[Peng Qi]

And this is why I'm beginning to suspect that the map size (or maybe the speed) is the problem. As I said, I have never been able to get anywhere near the number of resources ( I would need something like 45 resources to get that much food form the Sushi Company) that would have such a drastic effect, trade and territory be damned.

Actually, the size of the map has massive consequences in every sense: Apostolic Palace victory is a lot easier on small maps, corps are better on large maps, founding a religion is more important on large maps (if you intend to spread it) because the religious center building generates a higher possible max income due to the number of cities, founding colonies is more important on large maps, cavalry is more important on large maps, maintenance costs on huge maps tend to be so high that annexing territory of anyone other than immediate neighbors rarely pays off, and so on and so forth.

I'd actually like it if they tried to address all of these issues and scaled each of these scenarios based on map size. For example, I think the number of votes you need to win diplo victory on the AP should be based on the total number of cities in the world and not just the number of cities with your religion. That way it's still a bit easier on a smaller map, but it's not as absurdly easy as it is now. I also think the number of missionaries you can have at once should be based on map size.

 

[DemonMaster]

This isn't generally the case. The AI will usually become more willing to trade seafood to you if you have Sushi. It is only if THEY have Sushi that they will refuse to trade seafood, for very obvious reasons.

Funny because usually when I build Sid's Sushi (or SS for short) the AI soon after that breaks my fish deals and when I try to negotiate for it again, they only accept two resources per fish or a strategic resource (uranium, etc.) and that is what I call expensive (I don't like to give away my extra uranium away for fish, especially since the AI itself are very expensive when dealing with strategic resources). I guess It's has to do with my karma then.

Edit: Perhaps it's not that expensive since it is usaually the last resources of a type that is the hardest to get.