COTM 02 First Spoiler: End Of Ancient age

[Random fan]

Okay guys When I accepted your challenge (that I will settle right on the BG tile without scouting west with worker and you both - Smackster and Grahamiam will scout and then compare our results) I was assured that we gonna play Byzantines. When I found out that we are going to play agricultural Dutch I thought: what the heck? agricultural civ on such tiny island? something is not right here; and decided to scout with the worker for nearby river So I move west and see that chain of Mountain further to the west and the hint of blue beyond them un der the fog So I think: aha it is not an island and there is a river nearby! So I moved my settler further west and to my surprise that hint of blue was actually silks! but the still the area looked very promising and I decided to scout some more and settle there The rest of the beginning was very alike the singularity's chain of actions posted in the another spoiler topic for ancient era we found first 4 cities exactly on the same spots and in the same order...

So the point of this topic is to inform you about my misdeed and that if you wish I am ready to hold the challenge and if you don't I will understand

Moderator Action: Moved from a separate thread. Please do not start your own Spoiler threads - AlanH

 

[klarius]

I agree with Dianthus that the game was more fun using the relatively bad (it was still a good start) starting position. Just bashing on monarch AI's with a top notch start for an agri civ isn't any challenge. I finished the game in the meantime and am pretty sure to be in the upper half of the scores, which is good enough for me.

 

[Darkness]

I can see your point of view Offa, if all you care about is score. I'm finding this game really fun, and the score is definitely secondary. It looks like my tech pace is similar to those that moved the settler. It's now just a question of if I can get enough production up and running to blitz the AI on reaching cavalry.

For me too. I also settled at the tip of the peninsula and I only lacked currency, construction and monarchy in 1000BC...

 

[Offa]

Hey guys, I don't mean to sound petty about this. I suspect that abandoning the capital early on in favour of the cow site (which I didn't do) could catch up to some extent with the players who moved the settler at the start. Overall if I am going to stuff up a game I would much rather do it at the start before I have invested too much time in it. It isn't a real disaster like England "losing" to Portugal. Maybe I can enjoy some of the long Oxfordshire summer evenings instead (or more likely: play Medal of Honour).

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

I for one am going to practice some SP games moving the settler, if for no other reason than to get use to the idea.

Perhaps it's because i haven't been involved w/ GOTM lately but in the last 2 of 3 games extensive wandering of the settler paid off.

Has this been a trend, strategy wise, that i am just becoming aware of?

 

[bradleyfeanor]

I'm finding this game really fun, and the score is definitely secondary.

You are right Dianthus!

I must say that this has been a very fun map. Ainwood outdid himself. There were many small details about the map that made for big decisions (and great fun) throughout the game. I will have to wait for the next spoiler to post them though. It was an extremely enjoyable game; I guess I am just a little disappointed that I didn’t choose to move the first settler.

Thanks to those of you who explained the initial settler moves after moving to the mountain: those strategic decisions show I have much to learn!

I still don’t quite understand the first three moves west with the settler. During those three moves, you could see nothing but the mountains, 3 forest tiles and 2 unknown land tiles. If there had been no river on the other side of the mountains, moving the settler would have been a horrible game decision. Did people who moved the settler make this decision just because they believed Ainwood would not put us on a small, dry island? I guess I don't know Ainwood's "style" well enough yet.

I suspect that abandoning the capital early on in favour of the cow site (which I didn't do) could catch up to some extent with the players who moved the settler at the start.

I jumped my palace to the cow site in 1475 BC. Hopefully it will be enough to catch up to the explosive starts of those who settled next to the cow, but I doubt it.

 

[Dianthus]

I still don’t quite understand the first three moves west with the settler. During those three moves, you could see nothing but the mountains, 3 forest tiles and 2 unknown land tiles.

The silks were also visible on those 3 forest tiles. You have to bear in mind that the forests are quick to chop in . Even if those forest tiles were the only ones available (and it was pretty likely there would be further grass after the forest) and you had to settle on one of them you would get 20 shields for the chops and have two tiles of grassland with the extra gold from the silks to work with.

 

[dmanakho]

i never play for score but for fun and i think i did okay for mediocre player as myself.
I moved my settler to BG at the tip of peninsula, but i am going to do some testing and replays using SirPleb's spoiler to check the difference and do some learning.
Even with the steps i did i know i could have done better I made few mistakes and let AI beat me in getting philosophy in just couple of turns.
Oh, well...... we will see how my space/diplomatic victory will look at the end.

 

[klarius]

I for one am going to practice some SP games moving the settler, if for no other reason than to get use to the idea.

My experience is that wandering doesn't help in random games. Either there is no good position near, or you end up directly adjacent to another civ. And then they likely roll over you, at least the aggressive ones in emperor+ level.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

The silks were also visible on those 3 forest tiles. You have to bear in mind that the forests are quick to chop in . Even if those forest tiles were the only ones available (and it was pretty likely there would be further grass after the forest) and you had to settle on one of them you would get 20 shields for the chops and have two tiles of grassland with the extra gold from the silks to work with.

That explains it, thanks!

Unfortunately, I decided to settle SE and work with the worker. So I never even saw the mountains or the silk until my worker finished mining/roading. Oh, I was so close to a good start, but yet so far...

 

[Dianthus]

Well, I moved the worker NW and saw the mountains and silks. Unfortunately I didn't think about what it meant and decided to settle SE!

 

[SniperDevil]

yes the same thing happened with me but i think by moving my palace in the early MA it wont have that much of an effect

 

[Jason Fliegel]

I never bother with Printing Press. I can't think of an exception where I'd find it worthwhile to research.

What about in an archipeligo game in which you're the only Seafaring civ? Don't forget that Printing Press is the required tech for trading contacts in C3C?

 

[Bibor]

The archipelago game you mention is true only if the map is large or huge. Medium and smaller maps actually have some decent chunks of land an 80% of islands is connected by coastal tiles. Early in game, when you expand by machiavellian means, you *don't* want the civs to meet each other. The potential benefit from trading the contacts is far less important than the late game AI attitude. Even if somehow one single civ stays disconnected from other civs, its still good to have them isolated. You can buy luxuries and resources from them for peanuts (old techs) since they cannot contact other countries and buy those techs from rivals. Not to mention that you can spend research on printing press on some more pressing issues like gunpowder

-bibor

 

[Civgeek]

I'm finding this game really fun, and the score is definitely secondary.

Add me to the "didn't move the settler inland, but am enjoying the game immensely despite a less than stellar start" group. I did jump the palace in 370 BC however, so that helped although I’m quite behind in techs.

One question on the research choices for those that went straight for CoL-Phil-Rep and skipped Map Making; did the knowledge that there were other seafaring Civs in the game (hope that’s not revealing too much in this spoiler) with equally ”mighty” curraghs not make you consider getting Map Making first to get the first 4 MP galleys, or does the AI not use its enhanced curraghs effectively for exploration?

 

[klarius]

One question on the research choices for those that went straight for CoL-Phil-Rep and skipped Map Making; did the knowledge that there were other seafaring Civs in the game (hope that’s not revealing too much in this spoiler) with equally ”mighty” curraghs not make you consider getting Map Making first to get the first 4 MP galleys, or does the AI not use its enhanced curraghs effectively for exploration?

To my knowledge the AI isn't using curraghs at all. Also the human players (including me) had probably done most of the exploration already before MM was available.

 

[al_thor]

Class: Open

Early decisions:

• Moved SE to get the whales
• Go for Republic Slingshot
• Go for Domination Victory

I also decided that I would need to do the Palace Jump, which is something that I have never done before - made me nervous.

Basically, the AA can be summed up as follows:
1. Built plenty of Curraghs - meeting everyone early would be critical.
2. Colonization of our small continent and the surrounding islands was also critical.
3. I did not want to put any cities on the AI's continents. The main reason for this was that I did not want to commit the resources for defense should a war arise
4. After successful Republic Slingshot, decided that Libraries were needed to stay ahead of the AI - rush built several in main cities.
5. One major trading turn propelled me through much of the AA:

• Horseback, 282G from [another civ] for Writing
• Math from France for Horseback, 58G
• Polytheism, 113G from [un-named civ] for Math
• Iron, 70G from [un-named civ] for Polytheism

Other misc trading over the next bunch of years:
1. Construction from [un-named civ] for Poly, 57G
2. Monarchy, 114G from [un-named civ] for Construction

[un-named civ] had declared war on me very early - WAY before Map Making
This was excellent, as I planned to begin my colonization of the outside world with her anyway. Oddly enough, my Republic people never cared a bit about this war (at least not until MUCH later, but then it was a short-lived complaint).

Edited by al_thor. Corrected 1146 to 114G.

 

[al_thor]

Dang. How do I get an image to show (not attach)?

 

[SniperDevil]

i am really enjoying this COTM. This is my first game on Monarch and i am holding my own. On the scores i am in 3rd

 

[al_thor]

Sniper: How do you know you are in 3rd?