COTM 02: Pregame discussion

[klarius]

I'll wait till after making the worker move to decide on how fast to research. If we're on a small island with no bonus resources except the whales then the best we can do is around 45 turns to learn Writing by researching flat-out.

How did you calculate this?
I did a test game and could reach writing in less than 40 turns, in fact it was around 30 (ok with the frowned upon merging of the worker, but should also work without).
Build sequence was warrior (MP after merge of worker)->curragh->settler
But anyways it should be less than 30 turns from the point you work the two whales to reach writing at full research.

 

[King Of America]

The way it looks to me, we will eventually want to settle both the bonus grassland SE and one of the hills.

Reasoning:

If it's a tiny island, 2 cities beats 1, and settling a hills gives us 2 food on a 1-food producing tile.

If it's not a tiny island, we will want to setttle the SE site before the AIs get MM.

Hiil vs. SE:

If we settle SE, and there is another land mass 2 SE, we will have the 2 SE tile in our city radius after expansion.

If we settle a hill, we will immediately have at least 1 tile in our city radius (plus the two grasslands we already see) and are likely to have 2-3 (maybe 4) after expansion.

The question is, which is likely to help us more: the 1 tile 2 SE or the assumed 2-3 we get by moving to a hill.

I think the answer is the hill, so I am thinking of sending my worker to the western hill (I'm guessing that will expose more).

Sound reasonable?

 

[Karasu]

Of course it does. I think I will 'waste' one worker turn for exploration too, be it only to make sure that there is no other place to settle.

I hope it's a small island, and that the other civs won't share a major landmass -it would be nice to play an 'extreme Archipelago' map...
My bet on the civ is either England or Byzantium.

 

[eq1]

On monarch, and on a map with tiny islands, we will have plenty of time to settle our island and explore with curraghs and meet all the civs - esp. with a seafaring civ. The AI will not explore the seas before map making, and if they don't know each other, their tech rate is too slow. They will also not research alphabet or writing first. It is quite easy to control the tech rate on a map with small islands to a point where all nearby islands can be settled with no competition, and weaker-resourceless nations will be conquered.

 

[Karasu]

...and weaker-resourceless nations will be conquered.

That's the whole point :devil2:

 

[Baalzebul]

I hope to play English. I' ve never played them so this cotm can be the chance.

 

[Singularity]

Once we've researched map(most should be there around 1500BC) we should have a fairly good knowledge of the world because of all the suicide curraghs we've sent out must have yielded profit and many contacts. Now comes the big question: how to tackle the quite potent philosophy slingshot?

We'll most likely resettle our capitol, giving us a period of impaired teching. If we're starting on a 5 tile island this will be the most critical period. I for one would like to secure my position as tech-king, but also rebuild momentum compared to the AI's who are bound to have many more cities and territory compared to me. It's just the how that ircs me :|

Can we afford to research Code of Laws first, and if so, will we wait with trading writing to anyone so that we can secure philosophy first?

 

[grahamiam]

Can we afford to research Code of Laws first, and if so, will we wait with trading writing to anyone so that we can secure philosophy first?

i don't know what other's have seen, but I have noticed that the AI beelines for MM after writing, not philosophy (3 games in a row now). not sure why but based on that, and if i get to writing 1st, I will do the CoL -> philosophy -> republic gambit again, trading for MM, unless monarchy seems to be the prefered gov't for this map.

 

[LeSphinx]

So sump up: We have:
Civ Trait#1 : Seafaring
Barbarians : Raging...
and that's it?
LeSphinx

 

[Singularity]

i don't know what other's have seen, but I have noticed that the AI beelines for MM after writing, not philosophy (3 games in a row now). not sure why but based on that, and if i get to writing 1st, I will do the CoL -> philosophy -> republic gambit again, trading for MM, unless monarchy seems to be the prefered gov't for this map.

Yes, but then you can't push hard for a suitable core buildup at your new capitol location. It all depends on the resettlement spot I guess. Will it have rivers and luxuries to boost science(and plenty of food of course )? You can sit back and probably cruise in CoL and Philosophy if you don't start to fiddle with palacejumps. But once you do that(settler pop drops, unit upkeep, etc. etc.) your techrate will drop dramaticly. So my main concern is; how hard to aim for expanding my empire after MM, compared to aiming for getting the slingshot first?

edit. I just understood you where going to wait to trade for MM. Sounds a bit risky perhaps? You can say one thing for the AI, it expands swiftly after it can stuff settlers into their galleys.

So sump up: We have:
Civ Trait#1 : Seafaring
Barbarians : Raging...
and that's it?
LeSphinx

And 4 bill year old world - normal climate.

 

[Karasu]

As I said in the COTM1 spoiler, the Philosophy bonus all but forces one to follow the sequence CoL -> Philo -> Republic (which I forgot in COTM1, of course ).

I also believe that the AI will go for MM first, so my first approach would be to trade for it -unless we are really isolated.

 

[Xevious]

I played a random 80% water archipelago game on Monarch last night as Byzntines. I researched Writing, traded for pottery, slow researched map making, which the Dutch got ahead of me, and while I was researching Philosophy, the Dutch got COL. This leads me to believe that Philosophy isn't high on the AI priority list. I got Philosophy, and using big picture traded it for COL and then set research to Republic and got it free. So maybe it won't be too had to get the free tech anyway.

 

[Shinatoo]

Since I haven’t won a GOTM yet (did just finish my first Monarch win though) this may sound like a stupid scenario, but you guys can point out my folly.

Move settler SE, start mine. After mine is done, check out the hill, move settler back to town, join city and really get those boats a poppin (or the archers for that huge barbarian settlement over the hill).

BTW, my wife and kids will be out all evening, any way I can get an advanced copy? HA HA HA he hmmm……please?

 

[Random fan]

sounds good to me loser buys a round

My first GOTM/COTM and I already got in trouble

Well .. the chalenge is accepted so the loser or the losers buy the round

 

[King Of America]

DaveMcW pointed out early that the whales generate extra commerce -- it occurs to me that can be very important for a first city that builds a number of units or improvements before generating a second city (i. e., settler).

So I'm no longer sure where I expect to settle first. Let's see what the worker in the hills reveals.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

I hope scientific leaders are enabled. It will be fun to read about how the AI must have used one to rush a wonder a player was counting on.

 

[bosun]

That does appear to be the secondary color of the Dutch. If it is the Dutch, then England is probably in the game, with the primary color.

I agree that the map may not be ideal to highlight the Agricultural trait.

There is one thing I found irrating about the Agricultural trait; the extra base food can really hamper the starvation process. A city in full resistance will continue to grow. It can make preventing flips more fustrating.

 

[SniperDevil]

so what do u think the best starting sequence would be? Also what should u do if u find that the other side of the islland/peninsula is more suitable? or not?

 

[SirPleb]

How did you calculate this?
I did a test game and could reach writing in less than 40 turns, in fact it was around 30 (ok with the frowned upon merging of the worker, but should also work without).
Build sequence was warrior (MP after merge of worker)->curragh->settler
But anyways it should be less than 30 turns from the point you work the two whales to reach writing at full research.

You're right, thanks for catching that! I miscalculated. When I work it out today I get 214 beakers required and as you say we can easily do that in much less than 40 turns. We're up to 8 beakers/turn after the first 10 turns even without joining the worker. So I'll be researching Writing at the max rate for sure.

 

[SniperDevil]

Sir Pleb woul it be better to move SE if there is nothing on the other side of the hills? what would be worth moving to the other side of the hills if there was anything?