COTM 04 Pre-Game Discussion

[DaveMcW]

I prefer a 5/6 because it only needs to be micromanaged every other turn.

 

[bed_head7]

About your 5-7 question -- The Granary empties when the city reaches size 7, so a 5-7 Settler pump doesn't work; growth doesn't happen fast enough at size 7. (In addition to the temporary loss of the "granary effect," sizes 7-12 also require double the food of sizes 1-6 to grow, meaning that, even if the Granary stayed in effect, you'd still need 10 fpt for the last two turns of production!)

To take a Screenshot, press "Print Screen" (above "Delete" and "Insert"), then open Paint or Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop, etc. and Paste (Ctrl-V) the screenshot.

Well, that is not strictly correct. If growth on 6 to size 7 gives the necessary shields for a settler (or worker, I suppose), it will drop back down to 5, with the granary still full. I would have been too scared to try it out on my own, but in Jumpmasters 1C we had a 5-7 settler pump going in our capital for awhile. It doesn't seem like it would work, but as long as you never grow to size 7 without producing a settler the same turn, a 5-7 pump works.

Edit: I seem to have been beaten to the punch, though predesad called it a 5-6 pump. Also on rereading, I don't know if I contradicted what you said.

 

[predesad]

using Klarius "training save" i managed to build warrior, warrior, worker, granary, settler by 2550 (31 turns) w/ no forest cuts and the 4/6 settler pump ready after the first settler was built, i mined one more tile than was needed to get a second grass mined by the river, this is assuming there are grass tiles opposite the river and it looks like there are. this sequence only wastes a total of 4 shields when the granary is built (on a growth turn) and wastes no food whatsoever. Although granary is built when the city grows and is thus empty, but that works out fine for the first settler to take 4 turns while the city grows from 5 to 6.

 

[klarius]

Well, I wonder if anybody noted that in the save I supplied you can also operate the settler pump starting at size 3.5.
Not that it adds much benefit, but it's a nice insurance against the case when you mess up the MM once.

 

[grs]

Well, that is not strictly correct. If growth on 6 to size 7 gives the necessary shields for a settler (or worker, I suppose), it will drop back down to 5, with the granary still full. I would have been too scared to try it out on my own, but in Jumpmasters 1C we had a 5-7 settler pump going in our capital for awhile. It doesn't seem like it would work, but as long as you never grow to size 7 without producing a settler the same turn, a 5-7 pump works.

Beware! this does only work when the city can actually grow to size 7! It has to have an aqueduct or be on a river or it will fail.

 

[Darkness]

I prefer a 5/6 because it only needs to be micromanaged every other turn.

Couldn't agree more! I am way too lazy to do MM every turn...

 

[klarius]

Well, for the MM haters:
If you clean all forests and mine enough grass, you can get a factory on full autopilot.
This works with as little as two mined BGs and three mined regular grass.

 

[The Moose]

What techs do the Mayans start with?

 

[Darkness]

What techs do the Mayans start with?

They're Industrious/Agricultural, so they start with pottery and masonry...

 

[CKS]

I tend to always build a warrior first now, ever since I got my only city captured in 3150BC in GOTM28 .

It was so nice of you to do this, though. GOTM28 was the first one I tried, and I might not have had the confidence to submit it if you hadn't. The competition is a little intimidating, and I was lousy. (Now I'm up to "not very good".) Anyway, thanks. This helped me just as much as any strategy article ever written.

 

[Aeson]

Incidentally ainwood, does the Jason score for culture victories take acount of values other than 100K total or 20K for a city?

For Civ/PtW there is a modifier to 100K best date to even things out over mapsizes. Since C3C already does this by requiring different amounts of culture to trigger "100K", those modifiers are taken out for C3C scoring.

 

[Dianthus]

For Civ/PtW there is a modifier to 100K best date to even things out over mapsizes. Since C3C already does this by requiring different amounts of culture to trigger "100K", those modifiers are taken out for C3C scoring.

Cool , thanks for the update Aeson.

 

[Groin_Apologist]

size Shields Shields Expanded
4_____6___iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mG(1), city(1)
4.5___8___iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mG(1), city(1), forest(2)
Now micromanage and move citizen from forest to mG (or unminedBG).
5_____7___iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mG(1), city(1), mG(1)
5.5___9___iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mG(1), city(1), mG(1), forest(2)
Total 30

I must just be missing something here. In the scheme above, I don't see where you are getting the extra laborer. At size 4.5, you still have only four laborers to use, right? I don't see where you are getting the extra one to work the 5th tile (the forest) on the 4.5 step.

I WAS able to get a pump going with 3 mined bonus grasses, though. Thus, instead of above, my scheme would go:

size__Shields__Shields expanded
4_______7____city(1), iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mBG(2)
4.5_____7____city(1), iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mBG(2)
5_______8____city(1), iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mBG(2)
_____________NOW micromanage to move forest to mG(1)
5.5_____8____city(1), iWheat(0), mBG(2), mBG(2), mBG(2), mG(1)
Total___30

Am I insane, or am I just missing something easy? I guess the main thing I don't understand is how in the first scheme that you're working five tiles at size 4.5.

(Also, how do I capture a game screen to add to future posts? Maybe that would help me explain.)

 

[Dianthus]

On the turn that the town grows from 4 to 5 the 5th labourer is assigned to a tile, and the shields from the 5th labourer get accumulated. You don't get to choose which tile is worked, but if you've set the governor to do shields then the forest is normally chosen.

Edit: Oh, and to get a screen-capture just press the "Print Scrn" button to place the screen in the clipboard, then open your favourite paint package and paste it in.

 

[smackster]

On the turn that the town grows from 4 to 5 the 5th labourer is assigned to a tile, and the shields from the 5th labourer get accumulated. You don't get to choose which tile is worked, but if you've set the governor to do shields then the forest is normally chosen.

I never touch the governor and it always seem to chose the forest, or spare mined BG for me. Guess whatever weighting it uses by default emphasises shields over food.

smackster

 

[grs]

Always set the governor on shields. He will pick the right tile when you grow. As commerce and food are collected before shields this is always correct (ok, it you set a governor to manage citizens mood the may be wrong, but I assume you dont).

 

[smackster]

I never touch the governor and it works as expected. I've done my fair share of 4-turn settler factories.

 

[Groin_Apologist]

Ah- on the in-between-turns they accumulate. (Back to the drawing board.) Thanks everyone.

 

[Tone]

I often switch the governor off if happiness is going to be a problem and I am using the lux slider. The city does not go into disorder until the turn after the population grows if the governor is off but if the governor is on the new citizen will become an entertainer the turn the pop grows unless you predict the future unhapiness and increase the slider the turn before it grows. This of course uses up more cash than increasing the slider after growth.

 

[martijn]

No matter if we are Agricultural or not, I will definately found my capitol by the river. Also, I will want to keep the wheat inside the city radius (after expansion), which rules out moving E (the defense-bonus is of no use, since I am not planning on my capitol to be attacked in this game ). This leaves moving N or NE. I will probably want to cram in at least three core cities on the river, with the capitol in the middle. It looks like the river continues a fair bit north, while it may well end in a mountain a tile or two to the south. This leaves founding the capitol 1 tile N as the most likely option for me. But I will send my worker N first to have a look, even though that will waste a worker turn.

-- Roland

Wouldn't moving the worker to the hills east be a better option then if you 'want' to waste a worker turn??