COTM 08 Pre-Game Discussion

So when will find out the land form? ;)

The more I look at this, the more I think I don't want to move far at the demi-god level. Considering settler-NE. If I see BG then I'll move worker to it, mine and start with 1-2 UU's, then granary or settler assisted by forest chops. If not, move worker to plains forest (chop/irrigate) and start build granary, then UU's, then settlers/UU's/workers. Don't like second thought, but I don't want to roam around long searching for a good spot on an Ainwood map unless it is clear I need to move. My second city can become the settler factory.
 
There's a review of the Sumerians here.

Opening moves :
Settling in place would 'waste' 10-shields-in-4-turns, while settling on grassland would 'waste' a two-food tile; which is more important ? I guess it doesn't really matter, since both kind of tiles seem to be in abundance.
Still, if you prefer to settle a forest-tile, you might as well take one of the dyes, since the extra commerce doesn't get lost, and it saves your worker 7 turns (4 chop, 3 road) to connect them. [Actually, the dye-hard gold not getting lost is a supposition - can anyone confirm ?]

That said, I'd rather have my worker mine grassland than chop forest at the start. A sequence of 'move-chop(x4)-road(x3)-move-mine(x6)' yields 11 shields after 15 turns, while 'move-mine(x6)-road(x3)-move-chop' yields 19 shields if the first citizen works the mined field (which makes sense, following the general 'food-over-shields' civ-axioma). The first sequence yields 10 shields earlier, but I can't think of anything I'd want to spend them on - in the first 15 turns, that is ! The only thing that would make the first sequence more beneficial, would be if a BG tile were discovered under the forest - but that's just plain (terrible pun :p) gambling.

Another small detail is that I want the town and the first road to be on the same side of the river, so that the road really does speed up movements. Based on the minimap, those movements will most likely be north, or west or east, but not south, so locations south of the river seem less appealing.

Conclusions ? Settling NE or E is out, since our worker wouldn't have a close-by grassland tile to mine west of the river. there are no inclinations to move SW, other than revealing a couple of tiles, so the only viable options seem to be :
1. Settle in place, and if no bonus food is discovered, send the worker NE to improve that tile, then continue with the dyes north.
2. move north and settle on the dyes, hoping for a 'trail of bread crumbs' to get to bonus food, if no trail : worker again NE to mine the grassland.

I think I'll go for the second option. I can't imagine Ainwood leaving us without bonus-food nearby at demi-god level. :)

Early production :
If no bonus food is found, Enkidu warriors are a priority : they need to go look for it. Building a granary or not should become clear early on, based on SirPleb's excellent advice here.

Research :
on Demi-God ? There is no way I'm gonna spend effort on a first-tier tech; not the alphabet, not the wheel and not warrior code either. Iron working would be the only tech I'd consider, but I think I'll keep research at zero, trade for alphabet, and then start writing at minimum.

General strategy :
With defensive bonuses and cheap libraries, I'll go for maximum expansion, placing my cities agressively next to neighbours, pushing their borders back when necessary. This seems logical to do for the Sumerians, so that's another reason why I can't imagine not having food-bonuses closeby.
Don't know yet what victory-condition I'll go for. I won't be able to start playing before the 15th, so what type of play takes the least effort in General ? A quick diplomacy win ?
 
Ambiorix said:
I can't imagine Ainwood leaving us without bonus-food nearby at demi-god level. :)

In addition ainwood can settle us alone on the island. ;)
Wait for land form. Note 60% of water is a lowest possible value and it signs we will have (or AI) a large lands.
 
@Dynamic : yeah, I'm wondering what 'Map Type : standard' means.

@Ainwood : btw, can we get to know up front what civs will be featured in the upcoming COTM's ?
 
Ambiorix said:
Still, if you prefer to settle a forest-tile, you might as well take one of the dyes, since the extra commerce doesn't get lost, and it saves your worker 7 turns (4 chop, 3 road) to connect them. [Actually, the dye-hard gold not getting lost is a supposition - can anyone confirm ?]

Unfortunately, you do lose the extra commerce from the dyes if you settler on them with your starting city. The first city gets 3 commerce by default, and will still only get 3 if you settle on the dyes. The only special tiles that will yield a commerce bonus when you found the first city on them are: gold, gems, and silk on a river, which yield 4 total commerce; and gold or gems on a river, which yield 5 total commerce.

Edit: Essentially, you just compute the commerce value for the tile as you normally would (+1 for city(road), +1 for river, +x for bonus, -1 for despotism penalty), and if that does not result in more than 3, you lose the bonus for the starting city.

I am not sure what happens if you are a seafaring civ and founding on a coastal tile with a commerce bonus, as I have not tested it.
 
Thanks for the clarification, bradleyfeanor - I could never figure out how to calculate those bonuses. :crazyeye:
I still see settling north as most favored option, though; mainly because of the auto-connected luxury, and the possibility to encounter food bonuses.
(But I admit that it's not a likely image of the Sumerians : to be living in tree-top huts, surrounded by pots of paint :lol: ).
 
I think, I will go for a granary right away.
Probably settle NE and let the worker chop. Then chop two more forests without roading in between.
That should allow the granary to complete before the barbs come into play.
But that all may change after the first move or after settling.

I will start alphabet full speed, just in case ;) .
The little bit money, which may be wasted early doesn't make a big difference later.
 
Since a little more info before settling would be nice, and north seems a good direction to expand, and since there are dyes there, I think I will probably more the worker north first. This uncovers at least 5 tiles (plus any hills or mountains just beyond those 5 tiles), and puts the worker on a river dye forest. If nothing special is found I would probably move NE to settle, and chop, road and then mine the dye forest. Since there are no BGs in view, I'm willing to bet there's at least one to the NE, and who knows what we'll find under the dye forest. At anyrate, since we'll probably be expanding northward, having the roaded dye will be good anyway.

Unfortunately for me, I've only been playing the QSC portion lately so I won't speculate much beyond this.
 
ainwood said:
:ack: That will teach me for posting this when trying to meet a work deadine. Its continents.


Also, is it possible to provide a link to NoAIPatrol fix in the announcement message each time we start COTM thread...

That would help and encourage new (..and some old :rolleyes: ...) players to install it.
 
So what could ainwood be thinking? 1) It's a continents map. 2) He knows that we don't like to trigger a Golden Age in despotism, yet our UU is a unit that can trigger a GA from the very beginning. 3) It's Demigod and so we are at a big offensive disadvantage against the AI.

Does this all add up to us being the only civ on our continent? Or perhaps only one other?
 
I think Ambiorix' analysis is excellent. I too like the second option, moving the settler north. If better tiles become visible everything changes. If not then there's still compensation for the lost turn by getting the dyes auto-connected.

I won't move farther unless a reason becomes visible. As an agricultural Civ we'll get +3f/turn by settling on a river. I.e. grow every 7 turns. Moving further in the hope of finding a +4f or +5f location (grow every 5 or 4 turns) doesn't seem a worthwhile gamble.

Though Enkidu's might be used for a bit of worker snatching I don't suggest it unless you are sure you want an early Golden Age. Which might make sense if going for 20K. I'm not sure.

OTOH, the Enkidu's should be good explorers with little to fear from early barbarians. They should try to entice attacks from barbarians instead of taking the offensive themselves. Enkidus should be able to open huts with reasonable survival odds.

I don't know if there's a chance of making the Republic slingshot. Before starting I plan to play with beaker counts a bit or play a trial map to see how quickly we can learn the required techs. Important factors will be whether we can trade for Alphabet early on, how quickly the other Civs meet and trade early techs, and what luck the other Civs have in popping huts. The amount of gold available in the start region will also be a factor.
 
Hi,

I've just signed on to this forum last month. I had a fantastic time playing Austria, but didn't submit my game as I had read the spoilers first. So this COTM will be the first I will submit.

But, I'm feeling like a dropkick here cause I can't find where to download it, can someone provide a link?

Also what is, and how do I apply, the "barbarian fix"

Cheers,
jafa
 
Will attacking a worker with a UU trigger a Golden Age? I think that's not the case, but could someone confirm this?

I am thinking of a somewhat hypothetical, vindictive, and probably non-realistic scenaerio: attack worker without getting attacked--if necessaru disband the UU and even the worker-- just to slow down the AI's development. Has anyone ever done something like this?
 
@jafa, COTM is not available until the 1st of each month and this is the pre-game discussion for January's game :) Link for easy barb fixer is in >this< post.

@ King of America, I don't think that attacking a worker will kick off a GA but having done this I think it would be reasonable to expect the AI to attack you. Unless you lose every conflict you will then get a GA soon after your first attack! (and if you disband the UU what will you defend with? Archers?
 
Random thoughts:

When i started to play C3C one year ago, I thought Sum was the best Civ, I played at Regent first and liked the SGLs which helped me to finish them all off faster.
And for sure, Agr is the best trait(this is still my opinion) and it has the only UU which has a real synergy with the Agr trait, because you can build good defenders for your new towns very cheap (maybe Chasqui is another UU with Agr, because you explore the map faster)
And I like having cheap culture buildings (half price), makes it easier/cheaper to keep conquered towns and it might help a lot if going for 100K with ToA.

Now, for this game: SGLs are off. So, one reason why I would normally say Sci is the second best trait has gone, but on Demigod I wouldn't do that much research anyway.
The UU will help a lot keeping the barbs from pillaging my land/towns.

There's no upgrade to Swords so it might be worthwhile to get IW ASAP, especially because we can get to iron with one of our many settlers before the AI does.
And then an early war might be good, the half priced spears are good to keep the conquered towns or survive the first wave of AI units.
And horses would be nice, so one could do a massive Horse-Knight upgrade later on.

Upgrade: Another bad thing about the UU is that the pike upgrade costs 60g (spear-pike costs 30g), so one would need a lot of money.

Speculation: We are on a continent with 1-2 other civs, so a good plan might be: Connnect to Iron ASAP, conquer our neighbors before pikes come into play, so we don't need to upgrade our Enkidus all at once (maybe we can keep some in our core)
Maybe a nice neighbor builds Pyramids or ToA which we can capture then.

Initial moves: Worker N then rethink. Maybe settle on place.
 
jafa said:
1 other thing - I read there was a tool/game to practise tech-trading, anyone know where this is?

I haven't seen a tool, but a good way to learn about early tech trading is to look at the QSC submissions of the best players to see what they did. SirPleb, IMHO, is the best to review as he puts in great detail and is one of the best, if not the best, player around.

You also want to get CivAssist by Ainwood and CivReplay MapStat to provide information that helps you micromanage. You will find out what techs can be traded without having to go to the F4 screen every turn.

One common tech plan is to try to do is the Republic slingshot. Republic is expensive, but if you are first to Philosophy you get a free tech; hence, Alphabet, Writing, Code of Laws, Philosophy, Republic (free). I generally try to trade for Al, do Wr at min, then max to Ph. At demigod that is risky, many would do Wr at max, but I want the extra money for trading for other techs.

I try not to trade Wr until I get Ph, but this is not a hard and fast rule, but if there are any GH's remaining your trade could let them get it. I generally trade to everyone except those I plan to take soon. For the most part, the AI will trade with each other anyway.

I could go on for many pages, but this is some general info. I really improved after reading SirPleb stuff, who I studied in every game aspect as one would study Patton, Ghengis Khan, etc. :D
 
Another game without a bonus resource in the first 9. And at demigod level. Nice! Might this be the difficult game we've been promised? ;)
Positive note: Sumeria has two of the best traits in the game for a high level game.
I do hope there are horses nearby though...
 
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