COTM 09 Pre-game Discussion

[Più Freddo]

I think this looks like a good opening sequence: Worker W, mine, road, NE, road, mine. Build warrior, curragh, warrior, settler. [...]

I'll send the first warrior west at least two steps. Then probably north and then west. Curragh north. Second warrior south.

How about roading and mining the oasis instead of the bonus grassland? Then the second warrior gets a head start southwards.

Of course if we find a river through the desert down south we might have to tear down the mine and irrigate.

 

[solenoozerec]

Still I'm always reluctant to leave out pottery first. So my research will be pottery->writing, both at 100%.

Yep, I would make a final decision about researching pottery only after F10 information.
There is also a possibility of researching writing and then pottery if we are alone on a isolated island.

 

[solenoozerec]

How about roading and mining the oasis instead of the bonus grassland? Then the second warrior gets a head start southwards.

I see two disadvanatges about oasis compared to BG.
1.Bg is close to an elephant. Though may be not that important on monarch.
2. BG is more inland. Therefore worker will give more information.

 

[SirPleb]

one will reach writing in less than 40 turns

Yup, I'm thinking about 35 turns.

Still I'm always reluctant to leave out pottery first. So my research will be pottery->writing, both at 100%.

I think you're right. I've made this mistake before, leaving out Pottery first and then not having it by the time I wanted it. I've also had the opposite a number of times, starting by researching Pottery and finding that it was unnecessary. There's no certainty either way. On this map if building settler first (before considering granary) I think we won't need Pottery for at least 30 turns. Against that Pottery only costs 1/4 as much as Writing to research. It isn't a huge investment even if it turns out to be unnecessary.

I've changed my mind, I'm too uncomfortable skipping it, would rather be safe than sorry. I too will research Pottery->Writing at 100%

How about roading and mining the oasis instead of the bonus grassland? Then the second warrior gets a head start southwards.

Of course if we find a river through the desert down south we might have to tear down the mine and irrigate.

Interesting thought.

I want to start by moving the worker W just in case that reveals something. Given that, that BG should be the first tile improved. But after that it may still be a good idea to do the oasis second instead of the other BG. It will depend on what is visible by then.

I think I'll change my first warrior's route - SW and then southward (exact route depending on what he sees as he goes.) The second warrior can go west later on. If the first warrior finds a good city site to the south then the worker will develop the oasis after the first BG instead of the other BG.

 

[Tone]

How about roading and mining the oasis instead of the bonus grassland? Then the second warrior gets a head start southwards.

Futher to solen's answer, note the difference between mine/road and road/mine. Personally I'm going to mine first to get that extra sheild on turn 7 but others will be going for the commerce to get the boost to their research earlier. I'm hoping that the slight production boost will get my units out a little more quickly to meet our neighbours.

 

[Più Freddo]

I meant of course the second bonus grassland, not the first.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Looks like a great 20k start to me.
Curragh->Warrior->Settler->Colossus
Writing at max, any AI to find will research BW first anyway. Then Col/Rep, Math.
Colossus and SoZ will trigger a nice GA for even more wonders...

 

[klarius]

I want to start by moving the worker W just in case that reveals something.

I don't think worker W can reveal anything interesting. Only a distant mountain could be seen in addition to what we know.
Worker S immediately would show the same hill 2SW and a coastal tile, which may already allow to fog-gaze for a river.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Is it just me or does there appear to be a cow SW of the elephant. I think something is there for sure (think!! hehe)

I've blown it up and fiddled about and I agree that there's probably something there. It might just be another big elephant's bottom, though
I'm a crumb chaser by heart, though, so I might have a looksee, moving the worker SW, before I decide what to do.

I'm going to work off these premises:
We're alone on a small island in a chain of islands.
We're some distance off our nearest enemies.
Our enemies are hunched together, so we'll need speed to reach the Republic slingshot in time.

Based on that, I probably won't have time to play anyway
If I do get to play, and decide to settle at the start, I'll start building Curragh --> Settler. My research will be max towards the slingshot.

With a jackpot on the crumb search, I'll research pottery, then towards the slingshot. Build will include an early granary then business as usual.

 

[Hannabir]

With 80% water we might want to have The Great Lighthouse at some point. I think it also can be used to trigger timely Golden Age.
With no other seafaring civs near by I might go for that.
Any thoughts about it?

With 80% water, chances are that there is ocean between you and the other civs, which makes the Lighthouse less useful (no trade). Perhaps we can't even cross safely despite the extra movement point.

 

[MikeH]

Also, do people ever care that they're giving out tactics as this is somewhat a competition ?

I don't know about the rest, but I see my competition as my previous best score/ranking, not the other guys and gals here.

I took the Scandies for a test drive and found that beserks make Viking style raids a viable tactic. Find a Civ on another continent that can't reach you before Magnetism/Navigation, declare war, attack his/her coastal cities from your galleys, destroy the city, load the slaves into your galleys to be sent home and extort a tech for peace.

 

[Hannabir]

Looks like a great 20k start to me.
Curragh->Warrior->Settler->Colossus
Writing at max, any AI to find will research BW first anyway. Then Col/Rep, Math.
Colossus and SoZ will trigger a nice GA for even more wonders...

I expect to get the Colossus faster with the sequence Curragh->Worker->Granary->Settler->Colossus.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

That depends on the surrounding lands. If there's a high-food city to build Workers, the Granary won't be worth it. The second Worker sounds good, though.
And, I don't plan on researching Pottery first.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Does it bother anyone else that we can't see NE-NE. It's only two tiles away and we are currently on a hill. The tile NE isn't a hill and has a forest on it. Is the forest what hampers our vision?

 

[Jove]

Arrrr, I think DenyD is right, none of those attack 2 barbarians appear until Map Making. So that means the early boat has the advantage, and with 80% water, knowing where to go will be a plus. Maybe we'll meet the others and trade for their techs(or kill 'em off), maybe we'll find some island goody-huts. Maybe we can settle a productive arhipelago, like, y'know, Norway and Denmark, England, Russia, etc. is set up, sort of... I think I'd build a curragh first, and research pottery first. And just mull over the rest some more.

 

[WillowBrook]

Atypical configuation...hmm... ... I'm thinking maybe archipelago base configuration where all the islands have been connected by skinny land bridges. So getting towns on those bridges would be key to getting anywhere by water....hmm...

Perhaps I'll acquire conquests before next month is over...

 

[Abegweit]

@SirPleb and Klarius

I too will research Pottery->Writing at 100%

This was my thought when I read your first post. Pottery is simply too important to be left aside on a map when we may have no neighbours at all. It's different on a Pangea.

It may turn out that mapmaking is high priority as well, which pottery will also help us with. Of course, this is a much more important consideration in vanilla than Conquests. The curraghs and the slingshot combine to make mapmaking much less important.

The only real question is which comes first - the granary or the settler.

On a low-food map, I often like to build a settler ASAP, followed by two granaries. The granaries will be finished by the time the cities get big enough to pump out workers and settlers. Using this strategy, the starting worker is usually enough. He can build up the capital first and then the second city next without need for a helper.

Unless there is some surprise food somewhere, I expect to do this.

Edit: I am also thinking seriously about building the Great Lighthouse. One of the things about it that people never seem to mention is the ability to hide out from barbs in sea squares. I hate barbarian galleys - and this month, they are especially vicious.

 

[solenoozerec]

With 80% water, chances are that there is ocean between you and the other civs, which makes the Lighthouse less useful (no trade). Perhaps we can't even cross safely despite the extra movement point.

Seafaring plus lighthouse gives galleys that moves five tiles per turn . With such speed, oceans may become crossable.
The key time in this game is likely to be around invention. It will be very important to be able to get as far as possible as fast as possible.
IMHO the only likely reason for not building lighthouse will be that we have only a few other seafaring civs and all of them are on our landmass (if there is a choice between capturing vs. building, I always choose first )

 

[t.neo]

Does it bother anyone else that we can't see NE-NE. It's only two tiles away and we are currently on a hill. The tile NE isn't a hill and has a forest on it. Is the forest what hampers our vision?

Yes, the forest is in the way. A forest, jungle, hill or mountain square will always dim the square behind. Even if you are standing on a hill as in this case. You can also compare with the square SW-SW.

 

[Wanderer]

Quick COTM question. I saw in COTM1 (Thanks for that link, BTW!) that Sci Leader's were out - is that still true?

Just played a quick preview with Scandanavia, randomly got ivory , got a sci leader 2nd tech (pottery or something arb.) got philospohy, got lit for free and had GLib built by a ridiculously early age ... in 1525 bc ... so I'm guessing that Sci Leader's are still on the banned list...

Pottery was REALLY quick on max sci. I think I will go that route as well...