CP v. 65.2/CBP v. 12 - Released!

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The new stonehenge is terrible, I totally agree, and having it locked to piety makes it even worse.
Imo the old stonehenge was one of the weakest earlygame-wonders, and now moving it to a worse tech, nerfing the yields and locking it to a policytree.
Another point of worry is also how it will affect the pietytree, I mean all the policylocked wonders don't really need to be exactly the same power but there really is no way this new stonehenge can compare with Hanging gardens or even the pyramids.
I mean the pyramids are considered a pretty weak wonder, but atleast it gives you a permanent unique bonus(workerspeed) that is actually useful the entire game(kinda, assuming you expand) while the lasting bonus on the stonehenge is compareable to a temple.

I'm fine with nerfing the petra, I mean I usually build it just for the extra traderoute. While letting it buff floodplains makes it really powerful in some situations. Also this improves our ability to balance out other desertaffecting things without having to worry about it being overpowered when combined with petra.
 
How about adding +1 faith per specialist in the city where Stonehenge is built? It won't be very powerful early on, but toward the end of the game it could be worth almost 20 faith/turn in a guilds city.
 
aht820 said:
How about adding +1 faith per specialist in the city where Stonehenge is built? It won't be very powerful early on, but toward the end of the game it could be worth almost 20 faith/turn in a guilds city.
Click to expand...

That does conflict with the Piety finisher, however. Perhaps something a bit more unique?
G
 
Would it be possible to make Stonehenge double the power of the owner's Pantheon belief? For instance if you took +1 Faith per Pasture/+2 culture per Circus it would be improved to 2 faith/4culture.

If it is overpowered then we could nerf Stonehenge's base stats from +3faith +25 bump to +1 faith +1 culture or +1 faith +1 gold or maybe make it so whoever has the Stonehenge has the bonus.
 
I'd go for the calendar aspect of the historical Stonehenge and add a food/growth-related bonus. Perhaps lump faith whenever the city grows?
 
To me the problem with the new Stonehenge is that the bonus has been made instant (plus a lower yield per turn, right ?). Generally I think instant yield bonuses are rather boring as their impact on the remaining game is rather low (or at least indirect). I'm all for e.g. the workers (not settler) from the pyramids or even a free building as a way of buffing a wonder but instant yields are not my cup of tea.

\Skodkim
 
I played around 120 turns with the new version, and I run into some problem at 30 turn.
My health dropped to -2/-3 which in my 3 pop capital is pretty devastating ....
 
Valvts said:
I played around 120 turns with the new version, and I run into some problem at 30 turn.
My health dropped to -2/-3 which in my 3 pop capital is pretty devastating ....
Click to expand...

Health?
To me the problem with the new Stonehenge is that the bonus has been made instant (plus a lower yield per turn, right ?). Generally I think instant yield bonuses are rather boring as their impact on the remaining game is rather low (or at least indirect). I'm all for e.g. the workers (not settler) from the pyramids or even a free building as a way of buffing a wonder but instant yields are not my cup of tea.
Click to expand...
We could add in a free shrine, as that's thematically appropriate. Makes Stonehenge even cheaper, saves you 1 gold in maintenance in the early game (which is significant), and bumps the overall bonus up to +4 Faith.
G
 
Gazebo said:
Health?
G
Click to expand...

I meant happiness :P
Too used to BE ....
Anyways it really slows your early game growth to the point that I still have 3-4 pop turn 70 on epic. The only way to get out of this is researching your luxury tech and improving it fast, and if it is plantations then it will go super slow!
 
Are we adjusting ai flavors with all these changes to wonders, Buildings, etc?

I haven't looked in the files or on the database but some of these changes are definitely tied to new flavor types, e.g. the pyramids was probably tile improvement before and should be expansion now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't flavors the hidden secret behind ai choices, i.e. you can make a military leader build lots of amphitheatres by assigning it one of the militaristic flavors even though the building bonus has little or no effect on this?
 
Gazebo said:
Health?

We could add in a free shrine, as that's thematically appropriate. Makes Stonehenge even cheaper, saves you 1 gold in maintenance in the early game (which is significant), and bumps the overall bonus up to +4 Faith.
G
Click to expand...

I'm very sceptical about this free shrine. Seems like it'd be just as bad still, especially with how important it is to get a good pantheon early on (sth like Ancestor Worship or Science into Faith thing or Goddess of Hunt for camps).

If you want to get the good religion stuff fast - which I assume you do as you went Piety - then you will have constructed your shrine by the time you start building Stonehenge or you won't get those nice pantheons (a good pantheon like those I mentioned is going to give you much more than this silly +3 faith Stonehenge provides and so getting a faster Shrine instead is superior even in pure faith).

A free Granary would make more sense I guess but I still don't see the point of granting must have early game buildings to wonders instead of just making the wonder itself better. I don't understand nerfing a wonder such as Stonehenge which was pretty bad even in vanilla while you've buffed pretty much every other faith source (all pantheons give faith and are better on average, temples better than in vanilla, slightly more faith sources, better natural wonders).
 
Valvts said:
I meant happiness :P
Too used to BE ....
Anyways it really slows your early game growth to the point that I still have 3-4 pop turn 70 on epic. The only way to get out of this is researching your luxury tech and improving it fast, and if it is plantations then it will go super slow!
Click to expand...

Unhappiness is tied to a mixture of pop size and tech growth, so if you grow your cities rapidly without any happiness-boosting sources, it will result in such problems. I may need to adjust the happiness values based on gamespeed, or just reduce the unhappiness spike overall.

If you want to get the good religion stuff fast - which I assume you do as you went Piety - then you will have constructed your shrine by the time you start building Stonehenge or you won't get those nice pantheons (a good pantheon like those I mentioned is going to give you much more than this silly +3 faith Stonehenge provides and so getting a faster Shrine instead is superior even in pure faith).
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, considering that Piety gives you +1 faith from the get-go, so that early shrine isn't quite as essential. Waiting and grabbing Stonehenge for roughly 2x a Shrine, getting a free Shrine, +25 Faith and +4 Faith per turn would be a pretty good religion boost around turn 40-50. Also, let's not forget that this is the first available wonder in the game, and is also much cheaper than its policy branch competitors. I'm all for making Stonehenge a competitive wonder, but it does not need to be (nor should it be) super strong.

Are we adjusting ai flavors with all these changes to wonders, Buildings, etc?
Click to expand...

We need to do that, yes. I wanted to work out kinks, and see about any balance changes that were need, before I started on that. I've made some adjustments, but that's my next step. If you want to help with that, I'd be grateful. :)
G
 
Valvts said:
I meant happiness :P
Too used to BE ....
Anyways it really slows your early game growth to the point that I still have 3-4 pop turn 70 on epic. The only way to get out of this is researching your luxury tech and improving it fast, and if it is plantations then it will go super slow!
Click to expand...

So I checked my city screen, and apparently it take 2-5% of my food eventually, which is not much, but on the UI to bar it tells me -75% food growth...
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/34103307106092710/E848B6DEA78DF0103E13C0D954FC0A80A43F2268/

Also if I may point out some issues that I had with the current state of the mod:
- The luxury improvement tech is too far, you need to get 3 branches of tech until you can build quarry :(
- Barbarians steal money too frequently, it is absurdly that 2 barbs can take all your 200g just in 10turns of roaming around my capital.
- I used EUI so Im not sure if it is so in your mod's UI, but I couldnt see the unhappiness that my city produced by hovering on its name in the city screen
- I noticed that units heal 15hp outside friendly territory, inside, and inside cities. Is it intentional?
- Also another problem with the EUI is that I took 2 policies in Liberty, which means +4% in Production, and the % doesnt show in the city screen when you hover over your production output, also the -X% P and Gold from unhappiness doesnt show either when you hover on them, notice that I played with EUI, Ill try without it next playthorugh!
- Exp cap from Barbs kills... why ;(

Thank you very much! :)
 
Valvts said:
So I checked my city screen, and apparently it take 2-5% of my food eventually, which is not much, but on the UI to bar it tells me -75% food growth...
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/34103307106092710/E848B6DEA78DF0103E13C0D954FC0A80A43F2268/

Also if I may point out some issues that I had with the current state of the mod:
- The luxury improvement tech is too far, you need to get 3 branches of tech until you can build quarry :(
- Barbarians steal money too frequently, it is absurdly that 2 barbs can take all your 200g just in 10turns of roaming around my capital.
- I used EUI so Im not sure if it is so in your mod's UI, but I couldnt see the unhappiness that my city produced by hovering on its name in the city screen
- I noticed that units heal 15hp outside friendly territory, inside, and inside cities. Is it intentional?
- Also another problem with the EUI is that I took 2 policies in Liberty, which means +4% in Production, and the % doesnt show in the city screen when you hover over your production output, also the -X% P and Gold from unhappiness doesnt show either when you hover on them, notice that I played with EUI, Ill try without it next playthorugh!
- Exp cap from Barbs kills... why ;(

Thank you very much! :)
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a bad install of the CP/CBP, as those errors seem like database problems. Re-download, install, delete your cache, install EUI as normal, and then overwrite the lua files in the CP/CBP/CSD with the files from the EUI compatibility folder.
G

Edit: if you want to remove the xp cap from barb kills, download Whoward's mod that allows that.(picknmixmods.com)

Edit edit: also, don't let barbs wander around your territory! :)
G
 
Gazebo said:
Sounds like you have a bad install of the CP/CBP, as those errors seem like database problems. Re-download, install, delete your cache, install EUI as normal, and then overwrite the lua files in the CP/CBP/CSD with the files from the EUI compatibility folder.
G

Edit: if you want to remove the xp cap from barb kills, download Whoward's mod that allows that.(picknmixmods.com)

Edit edit: also, don't let barbs wander around your territory! :)
G
Click to expand...

what does that mean?
 
The weak Stonehenge jumped out at me right away too.

However I think we should playtest it and see how it goes at its new cost before overhauling its effects again.
 
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