Crime Revisited

[JosEPh_II]

I'm finding that most crimes initiated by a set level of general crime(pop generated), have exceedingly High values. Some to the point of maybe never being activated. Also these same "crimes by level" are split up by what era their PrereqTech is in. And many are basically duplicates of an earlier form of the same crime just named different by timeframe/era.

The biggest generator as mentioned by others is Population and then the diffusion to adjacent tiles to the main city tile which in turn rediffuse back to main city tile.

There are a handful of low level Crime that gets injected at the preh era that is generated no matter what era you are in (has no PrereqTech).

As I see it now there are about 10-15 Crimes that can be eliminated completely due to several factors (duplication but given a "new name", and levels that make no real sense). But also about 30+ that have levels that need to be lowered to actually have an effect.

DH suggested evolving crimes and I think Hydro tried to do that by the Prereqtech and if it also had an ObsolencesTech tag (several do).

But overall this Crime block of SpecialBuildings_CIV4BuildingsInfos seem incomplete and rather haphazard.

JosEPh

 

[Toffer90]

And many are basically duplicates of an earlier form of the same crime just named different by timeframe/era.

Then the latter autobuild should replace the former.
I would be surprised if it isn't set up like that already; since housing is made this way.

If it isn't you should consider to do that for this modmod.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Questions to all:

How many of you ever let your Crime level reach 1,000? Or even 500?

When do you start to take action (what level) against crime?

JosEPh

I can't say I take action in any reliable way. It's measured against other needs and how severely I'm suffering from it. That, of course can vary tremendously. The later you are in the game, the worse it can be to let it go. The city's ability to tolerate the crime without being unhappy wavers and depends on a lot of factors. So yeah... it's impossible to nail that down really. Truth be told, much as I recognize that it's probably economically more beneficial to allow some crime, if I'm really on top of things I usually TRY to keep it under 0, at least in the cities that really matter to the empire.

 

[Faustmouse]

Normaly I try to keep crime below 200 (I think?) in the TH era so I won't get this very costly crime. Once I have a reliable military city set up, I usually build so many Watchman that all my cities have 0 crime. That might be a bit over compensating but this way I don't have to check very often. Usually I put at least 3 in each city which keeps me below zero for very long time (at least 100 years ago when they could get all their anti-crime-promotions right away).

 

[Noriad2]

I once conquered a city that had several prehistoric Tourism wonders before I got Masonry. Tourism kept on rising and crime went completely out of hand (way over 500 and rising if I remember correctly) and the REV index also started to rise. However, when I did CTRL-T (recalc) that also has the side-effect of setting Tourism to zero. Eventually most of the tourism wonders went obsolete at sedentary lifestyle.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Questions to all:

How many of you ever let your Crime level reach 1,000? Or even 500?

When do you start to take action (what level) against crime?

JosEPh

So from the varied and mostly obscure/tangent answers no one seems to pay much attention to it.

Maybe I should've asked what level seems appropriate enough to force you to deal with it? Is letting 300, 400, or even 500 crime in your city okay?

T-Brd: likes to keep it around 0, as do I.
Faustmouse: around 200 (in the TH era).
Arakhor: as soon as it becomes a problem. (very subjective).
Toffer: no answer
Noriad: tangent about tourism's association with crime, no answer.

Thanks for your responses.

@Toffer,

Then the latter autobuild should replace the former.
I would be surprised if it isn't set up like that already; since housing is made this way.

Does not seem to be the case for Crime, in any manner of straight forwardness. May have been the intention but seems to have never been followed thru with.

Well I've just about decided that any crime with a iMinValue > 700 will be lowered significantly or eliminated if it's a duplication of an "earlier" crime. And 82 Crimes with <iMinvalue> with 85 crime buildings is too much, considering many will never come into play.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

I said last year that we shouldn't need countless Education/Ignorance autobuilds simultaneously and that a larger or smaller one (incorporating all relevant autobuilds) should take precedence at the given time.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I lay the Education/Ignorance explosion at the feet of one Mr Azure. Who liked doing everything on a Grand/Extravagant Scale. And since neither he or Hydro are modding I don't know if any remain members of the Team have bothered to look into how many there really are. Other areas of focus dominate for those remaining modders, with already too much on their respective plates.

Realistically Arakhor there is no one left with the energy/time/will to do so, to revise all that you've laid out.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

I suppose I have complained rather a lot! It's just that there are several good reasons to play C2C, as well as (say) AND, and unfortunately several excellent reasons not to, which is what makes the positive reasons all the more frustrating.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The education buildings could easily be revised to replace one another rather than compile but I didn't think there was much of a benefit to either approach over the other and it was slightly easier to implement as it was - then they did something strange about dividing out one of the effects into a different auto-building chain. Not sure I understand why that was done but it's all still the same charting of progression in effects. For the most part.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, given the narrow width of the special effect column and the lengthy titles of the properties ("Ignorance: Argumentative Awareness") etc., most of the name is lost anyway, let alone the issue with multiple effects stretched over several lines being a lot less transparent than one or two properties with combined effects.

 

[Harrier]

Questions to all:

How many of you ever let your Crime level reach 1,000? Or even 500?

When do you start to take action (what level) against crime?

JosEPh

I always check crime when it above 300 say. - and build enough buildings to lower it.

Never reached 1000.

When a city needs new buildings (at start of turn), I check health and crime, if ok then production and science - then gold.

 

[Yudishtira]

Questions to all:

How many of you ever let your Crime level reach 1,000? Or even 500?

When do you start to take action (what level) against crime?

JosEPh

I try and keep all my cities below +75 (or at least heading that way). But there are all sorts of factors including difficulty level and playstyle that are determinants here. I would encourage players who thought they could get away with ignoring crime altogether to try that out.

The only way I could see crime getting to 500 or 1000 (in my playstyle as above) is in a remote city you've just conquered without enough storytellers &c. to prevent a prolonged rebellion (or enough law enforcement to control crime of course). In a large city I've seen crime going up by 100-200 per turn.

 

[Faustmouse]

Maybe higher tier crimes (400+) should create crime as well to get a positive feedback loop? This could also start earlier if desired, so that all crimes with 200+ give +1 crime,with 300 +5 crime, with 400 +10 Crime...
This would also make high tier crimes more frequent. What I don't like about this is, that you'd feel more enforced to check more often, since IF crime gets slightly out of hand, it gets really fast far worse than expected.

 

[Noriad2]

Maybe higher tier crimes (400+) should create crime as well to get a positive feedback loop? This could also start earlier if desired, so that all crimes with 200+ give +1 crime,with 300 +5 crime, with 400 +10 Crime...
This would also make high tier crimes more frequent. What I don't like about this is, that you'd feel more enforced to check more often, since IF crime gets slightly out of hand, it gets really fast far worse than expected.

Yes, an overview or list of the crime and other properties for all cities is sorely needed.
In V33 you could make such a list for the REV index (the button in the upper right, red colored, with the Che Guevara picture). In V35 this is broken but you can still reconstruct a view by hand temporarily for the rev indexes of the cities. A pre-programmed view for crime, education etc. for all cities would make managing those properties a lot easier.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, in a similar vein, this is my F1 (domestic advisor) layout, with all the property integers on display as well. (Remove "C2C" first, obviously.)

 

[Toffer90]

Maybe I should've asked what level seems appropriate enough to force you to deal with it? Is letting 300, 400, or even 500 crime in your city okay?

Toffer: no answer

Thanks for your responses.

It is always economically worth it to keep crime under 200 because crimes after this costs more than 1-5 law-enforcers.
I usually try too keep it under 100, but if I don't pay attention I sometimes experience a city that has reached 500-600 (Renaissance era, usually in a city that has grown extremely many times in a short period of time.).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Once I get my "chart" laid out I will be listing the Eras that crimes 1st show up in. Then I will also rank the levels that allows them to be manifested.

I also will list new proposed modmod level for the Crime to show.

Consensus now is that crime can be tolerated up to the 200-300 range and then needs to be dealt with.

Thank you all for your input to my questions. I will be asking more in the future.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

After that, you can deal with pollution and flammability.

(Does flammability even have an effect? Otherwise, it's just dragging down performance for no reason.)

 

[sunrisereader]

flammability only affects if some events about buildings burning down can happen and how many buildings the event destroys.