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Criticism of Spain's Conquistador unit

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ShahJahanII, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. Antarion

    Antarion Prince

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    you dont know how to use the conquis right?
    the sight bonus works great with the UA, also their city attack bonus works great if a city states has natural wonders and so on.

    the ability to settle new towns is just a bonus not smth to rely on. imho from strongest to weakest ability of the conquistadors i would suggest:

    city attack > sight bonus > embarkation (safer discovery of the new world, but the bug after the last patch makes it a bit weak, especially songhai sux now) > city founding

    dont forget one thing if you raise stupid place cities you can still quick found one with your conquistadores.
     
  2. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Emperor

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    Conquistadores are not specifically for settling. They're for grabbing territory on a foreign continent. They are self-sufficient traveling to that continent (barring massive naval might), they are well-equipped to conquer cities on that continent (with a city attack bonus relative to the Knights, which makes them effectively a stronger, more mobile Longsword on offense), well equipped for exploring that continent, and they can grab spare land if there happens to be a good site that isn't already claimed.

    It's a total package deal. If they were just settlers++, they'd be awful, but as a unit you can spam out to go colonize some other part of the map, they work well.

    Spain's real problem is that if you're not willing to DoW some random city-states or other empires for a simple land-grab in the mid-game, their bonuses aren't worth much. And the way the game is structured now, if you're playing to conquer, you'll do it in a more systematic way, taking out close empires first, further empires later. If you're not playing to conquer, you don't want the huge diplomatic hits and the happiness/culture hits you get from expanding. If you're playing to win at all, you don't want to do the thing that Spain's unique stuff is built to do.

    The basic problem, imo, is the victory conditions, NOT Spain itself. If they ever release the C++, I'm going to try and rework victory in the game to something that doesn't have these negative consequences.
     
  3. _hero_

    _hero_ King

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    Right. Have you guys ever considered that with the no penalty attacking cities, that you can take cities, RAZE them, then settle in their place to have a better city then an annexed one and more utility then a puppet.

    Let's be real here. In real life Spain didn't just show up to the America's and find no civilization. This is exactly what they did. Conquered the natives and settled in their place.
     
  4. AznWarlord

    AznWarlord Monarch

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    Terra is not the Earth map, that map is called "Earth". Although I believe the mix up comes from the fact that the CIV4 Earth map was called Terra.

    The CIV5 Terra map is randomly generated, 2 worlds. old world + new world
     
  5. The A.K.T

    The A.K.T Warlord

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    on the most maps conquistador is very good. no minus against cityes, safty embarkation, extra sight, making citys. a very good unit.
     
  6. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

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    It's important to remember that knights are now the strongest medieval unit, so having a knight that loses the innate city-attack penalty is much better than it used to be. Conquistadors and Mandekalus are the best city-attackers in their era.
     
  7. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

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    But in real life Spain was far more technologically advanced than the natives, guns and horses vs spears, and they brought deadly diseases with them. It wasn't exactly hard to take their land.
     
  8. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    But I am sure those natives were tactically better than ciV AI. :p
    You can still do what Spain did in history. There would be civs that would lack iron & horses or have very few of it. Attacking them would be a piece of cake. :)
     
  9. Dermo

    Dermo Warlord

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    They'd probably be good on some Highland maps. On some of the ones I've played there are sometimes huge tracts of land that go undeveloped through most or all of the game because there's only one or two passes in and out of them
     
  10. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Emperor

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    The main blocker for doing this is simply the fact that there are extreme diplomatic ramifications for doing it. Even if you have technological superiority, exterminating a native population is going to get everyone else in the world to hate you. Contrast this with the reaction of Europeans to Spain's conquest of large portions of the new world, which ranged from indifference to jealousy, but didn't include any real indignation on behalf of the natives.
     
  11. Mods

    Mods Warlord

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    A human player has the upper hand anyway, and that was only possible because I was playing on marathon, so the initial continent swapping wouldn't put me too far behind.

    Also it was only on king difficulty, on higher difficulties there'd still be a risk of someone completing utopia or building the spaceship before you, which you couldn't stop at all because you're too far away
     
  12. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

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    Good thread so far:) I'm also looking for chieftain-king level players to play with. Contact me if your interested. I live on the east coast (of the U.S.A.) if time is a problem.

    Steam Username: KingPtolemyIII
     
  13. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    The real problem with colonization of the New World is that you get a diplo penalty with all the civs that already know you (and ALL the CS, if you happen to DoW one), instead of getting the penalty only with civs that know you AND the civ you are wiping out. If that was the case, then you would be free to "exterminate" whatever you found in the New World, as long as you were the first to get there, and all your pals in the Old World would remain your friends; right now, if you try to pull this out, they will somehow learn about your misdeeds, and hate you forever more.
     
  14. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

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    I tried it. Its a great mod. Thank you for the recommendation:D.


    Still looking for players.
     
  15. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    I know but AI is going to hate you anyway. I would preferably not wipe out a civ but leave them with a puny city so I get lesser penalty. Also another option is to raze their cities & place your own. :)
     
  16. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

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    I think the Terra Incognita mod is a close solution. It basically makes an "old world" continent, but the "new world" could be a giant archipelago, a few small continents, or just a giant, uninhabited continent overseas.
     
  17. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Emperor

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    Not sure how you play, but I don't find this to be the case - remaining friendly with the AI isn't all that difficult.
     
  18. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Hmm, I'm pretty sure the actual conquistadores under Cortés razed Tenochtitlán and built Mexico City on the site. If only that were applicable to CivV in some way . . .
     
  19. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

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    Good thread so far:) I'm also looking for chieftain-king level players to play with. Contact me if your interested. I live on the east coast (of the U.S.A.) if time is a problem.

    Steam Username: KingPtolemyIII
     
  20. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    I was waiting for somebody to point this out. The settling ability of the conquistador is very situational, but the no city attack penalty and +2 sight are awesome. In fact, this is the only land unit with +2 sight in the entire game, it's like a caravel on land! I don't ,know that the Mandekalu Cavalry need a buff, however, b/c they stack with songhai's already OP'd triple gold conquest bonus.
     

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