Criticism of Spain's Conquistador unit

[ShahJahanII]

The obvious problem with any of these maps is that Polynesia would get a massive advantage since their UA lets them settle overseas land right from the get-go

 

[ShahJahanII]

isnt that what you wanted, old/new world?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The map script from CivIV would make a large, pretty random, continent that all the players would start on, then a smaller, equally random, continent that would have no civilizations, save for barbarians (and in Civ V's case, city states; possibly)

 

[MadDjinn]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The map script from CivIV would make a large, pretty random, continent that all the players would start on, then a smaller, equally random, continent that would have no civilizations, save for barbarians (and in Civ V's case, city states; possibly)

maybe you're not listening on purpose, and maybe you just don't understand:

Terra is the 'old world/new world' random continents/etc where everyone starts together. You know, the one you said you wanted.

The EARTH map is the 'earth map'.

 

[Steelyglint]

but "terra" is based on Earth, thus I feel it is too predictable

Try the Terra Incognito mod if you mean the number of continents and stuff. I think that's what it's called... Not sure. Might be Terra Nova or somethin'.

If you're saying that having not played Terra, you misunderstand. It is not a special sort of Earth map, it's just two big continents which are very random. The first time I tried it I got a map with something which looked suspiciously like the Iberian peninsula and Italy, but now I think it must just have been chance.

 

[ShahJahanII]

maybe you're not listening on purpose, and maybe you just don't understand:

Terra is the 'old world/new world' random continents/etc where everyone starts together. You know, the one you said you wanted.

The EARTH map is the 'earth map'.

My apologies, I may have mixed up "terra" with some other map type

 

[ShahJahanII]

If you're saying that having not played Terra, you misunderstand. It is not a special sort of Earth map, it's just two big continents which are very random. The first time I tried it I got a map with something which looked suspiciously like the Iberian peninsula and Italy, but now I think it must just have been chance.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ShahJahanII]

The obvious problem with any of these maps is that Polynesia would get a massive advantage since their UA lets them settle overseas land right from the get-go

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=292784&stc=1&d=1308166307

I think this proves my point.

 

[Exterminas]

no it is a fail and needs more than a buff.

It is only fail if you assume that every civilization has to be balanced to stand up in a deity/pangea-game.

If you take the position that differen civs should have different advantages in different situations, it is not worse than any other civilization-perk out there.

As it was said, on a terra or achipelago map the Unit hast it's uses. Also it can not be seen without the context of spains pretty strong unique ability.

While it is a bit random at times being able to squeeze out ten science per turn from that sea volcano can be overpowered. As can be getting a thousand gold from discovering Eldorado as the first, which then generates ten culture for you, if setteled (more than stonehenge)

Saying the spanish unit is fail is like saying the Iroquis are a fail civ, because they are utterly useless in a area without trees.
They aren't fail, they are situational, which is what Civ is all about.

 

[Sonereal]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=292784&stc=1&d=1308166307

I think this proves my point.

It only proves that you, the player, is better at expanding.

 

[ShahJahanII]

to end the "situational" debate, let's assume we are talking about continents or terra maps here

 

[ShahJahanII]

It only proves that you, the player, is better at expanding.

That's not me playing. But you can clearly see that a human player as Polynesia has the upper hand.

 

[_hero_]

The settling ability of Conquistadors is more about flavor then gameplay. The real reason that it is a solid unit is because it doesn't suffer a penalty against cities making it the most powerful melee unit against cities until you get riflemen.

It is basically a slightly better version of the Mandekula now. Both have no penalty vs cities and 18 str. The Conquistador also gets +2 vision. Both get embarked defense.

You guys should be talking about how Mandekula's need a buff. Not Conquistadors.

 

[ShahJahanII]

The settling ability of Conquistadors is more about flavor then gameplay. The real reason that it is a solid unit is because it doesn't suffer a penalty against cities making it the most powerful melee unit against cities until you get riflemen.

It is basically a slightly better version of the Mandekula now. Both have no penalty vs cities and 18 str. The Conquistador also gets +2 vision. Both get embarked defense.

You guys should be talking about how Mandekula's need a buff. Not Conquistadors.

But Spain is supposed to be built for expansion. The Songhai are built for conquest or culture. The Mandekalu fit their civ well enough. The Conquistador does not.

 

[ShahJahanII]

The settling ability of Conquistadors is more about flavor then gameplay. The real reason that it is a solid unit is because it doesn't suffer a penalty against cities making it the most powerful melee unit against cities until you get riflemen.

It is basically a slightly better version of the Mandekula now. Both have no penalty vs cities and 18 str. The Conquistador also gets +2 vision. Both get embarked defense.

You guys should be talking about how Mandekula's need a buff. Not Conquistadors.

Also the Mandekalu can move after attacking.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

But Spain is supposed to be built for expansion. The Songhai are built for conquest or culture. The Mandekalu fit their civ well enough. The Conquistador does not.

You mean a knight unit that makes a great explorer and can settle cities over seas isn't thematic for a civ that's themed after exploration?
What is, then? Because, by that metric, the Mandekalus don't seem to be conquest-themed enough!

 

[ShahJahanII]

You mean a knight unit that makes a great explorer and can settle cities over seas isn't thematic for a civ that's themed after exploration?
What is, then? Because, by that metric, the Mandekalus don't seem to be conquest-themed enough!

Again, by the time chivalry is available to build the conquistadors, all the good land has been taken. Playing on terra maps has been suggested but that gives some civs, especially Polynesia, a large advantage.

 

[Thormodr]

Again, by the time chivalry is available to build the conquistadors, all the good land has been taken. Playing on terra maps has been suggested but that gives some civs, especially Polynesia, a large advantage.

The solution might be to allow bigger maps in order to have longer exploration periods. This would help make conquistadors more useful.

The problem is that Civilization 5's design basically precludes bigger maps.

Therefore, it is a failed or suboptimal design.

 

[fmlizard2]

I play a lot of Spain. Conquistadors are fantastic for taking cities because they incur no city attack penalty, but the settling on other continents thing is pretty useless. I was really jazzed to try it but I think I have only used it one time, ever.

I think it would still be fair to let the Conquistador just found a city any old place, not just off the main continent. By the time they come along there aren't a ton of great city sites even on the main continent.

 

[ShahJahanII]

I play a lot of Spain. Conquistadors are fantastic for taking cities because they incur no city attack penalty, but the settling on other continents thing is pretty useless. I was really jazzed to try it but I think I have only used it one time, ever.

I think it would still be fair to let the Conquistador just found a city any old place, not just off the main continent. By the time they come along there aren't a ton of great city sites even on the main continent.

I think we might just be getting somewhere with this topic

 

[Babri]

Conquistador is a really powerful UU & argubaly the best for exploration & colonization. If you don't find any land on other land settle, there is no need for worrying, send conquistadors to attack a backward civ oversees & they can do wonders. They don't get penalty attacking cities & have LOS more than even the America UA. Also they get embarkment defence so you don't need to worry about barb ships. I think it is fine as it is & much better than crappy cIV conquistador.