Crusader Kings 2

Finally finished my Zoroastrian Persia game. It took forever to finish picking off all the last remaining counties from Denmark and the Sultanate of Andalusia.

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When SuperBeaverInc saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer.
 
If you're not fussed with cosmetics, just get the big ones: Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, The Republic, The Old Gods (and optionally, Ruler Designer). That's a more manageable list. :)

That's all I got and I'm enjoying myself.

The new portraits would be nice, but unless they mark them down 90% I won't bite. I play on mute with the news on in the background, so that solves the music DLC question for me.
 
Of the cosmetic DLCs the only ones that you would want are the portraits, as you're looking at people for a large part of the game, and it helps with variety. I know a lot of people don't' like some of the portrait DLCs since the Mongol or African ones, but I'm fine with them all.

Especially since I modded them to be awesomer. /end shameless self-promotion
 
I'd love to hear that story...
Btw, the winner was my heir, first son on Herert Karling, before I managed to switch to elective in favor of my current character.
Seems I underestimated him :D
 

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I'd love to hear that story...
Btw, the winner was my heir, first son on Herert Karling, before I managed to switch to elective in favor of my current character.
Seems I underestimated him :D

Reminds me how Emperor Nero became the greatest olympic hero of all time :lol:
 
Anyway, King Bouchard the I was still childless, so I buttered up the Pope, divorced my wife who was nearing 50, married a lusty 16-year old and... yeah, the excitement killed him. :lol:
Game over with second character. :lol:
 
I decided to play some CK2 while I wait for the release of EUIV. Started as the Republic of Amalfi in the 867 start.

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Colour coded timeline:
Dark Red - start position
Initial conquests - Capua and Napoli
Second conquests - Benevento, Bari, and Salerno
At this point the Byzantines were begin to encroach up the peninsula, having taken all of the land to my south and Sicily. I swore fealty to them to prevent them trying to take my land and safeguard myself against any external threats. While the Byzantines were busy in a war the Tulunids came and holy warred Sicily away from them.
Yellow (Sicilian Holy War) - hired mercs and grabbed Sicily from the Tulunids, making the island my own personal demesne outside of the city of Amalfi itself
Green (Formed the Most Serene Republic of Sicily) - consolidated the Byantine territories in Italy completely under my control
Blue (Greek incursions) - fabricated claims on Cephalonia and the entire Duchy of Achaia and seized them

It was at this point that the Byzantines managed to lose an invasion of Anatolia to the Abbasids and move crown authority to medium, preventing me from doing any more internal warring.

Since the Byzantines seemed to be a sinking ship, and considering my income was about 60 gold per month, I decided it was time to go my own way again. My military forces were probably about one third that of Byzantium's, but I was also able to afford large quantites of mercenaries, which I used secure my independence. I even managed to slay the emperor in battle.

At some point in the future I need to take that Italian province from the Empire of Francia, but the AI is doing remarkably well at keeping that stable, so I haven't tried yet. With EUIV coming out I probably won't continue this save for a while, so I'll have to wait and see how this turns out in the future. Long term goal was to take over Byzantium and see if I could create a Roman Republic. Though as a Catholic I wouldn't be able to mend the schism.
 
Have you consider doing a full blown AAR for CK2?

That is something I could consider doing. Though it wouldn't happen until at least September.
 
Okay, started playing CK II after some false starts with the Norman Invasion, and finally worked out the system.

Playing a suggested start as William (I'll play a future game as Tostig...) and really enjoying it, partly for the detail and strategy but also in large part for the alternate history of known characters. Though I'm not sure if I'm playing it 'wrong' as I find I have little to do between rebellions, not having the income to build anything and not wanting to make drastic legal changes or commit to major wars while having to sit on standby in case discontented nobles cause trouble. I can't make many diplomatic overtures without either money or ranking children to marry off.

Anyway, the Norman Conquest went ahead and I was able to extort the kingdom of England from Harold after crushing his army, promptly throwing him in prison. Discontent started rumbling away - my efforts to appease Morcar in York went unheeded, and nothing appeared to happen with my scheme to kill Eagar, the candidate he favoured for the throne. I put down the Yorkist rebellion - slightly time-consuming, but I didn't lose any provinces and only one battle (a surprise attack on an army in Rouen).

Shortly thereafter Harold was released from prison (not my doing, it just happened). It was quite pleasing to appoint him my Marshal and generally build a positive relationship with him, at least until I imprisoned someone for plotting to claim one of Harold's vassals - since it was one of Harold's own sons. This despite the fact that Harold was spending his time stripping his vassals of titles to claim for his own, before staking his claim to be king.

He didn't get any supporters, but unwisely declared a rebellion anyway despite having two of his vassals still imprisoned following the last rebellion and having a fairly small army. That rebellion was very short, although did result in William being rendered incapable during the major battle and replaced by Odo as regent (who has rather poor stats for most things; my income has gone down quite a bit) - reluctantly I executed Harold, since the penalty for revoking his titles was so severe.

The Duke of Kent was then released from captivity and I was told I had a reason for justly imprisoning him, despite the fact that, having been in prison since the end of Morcar's rebellion, he hadn't had any opportunity to side with Harold. Since I had only a 36% chance of success, I decided to make him my Court Jester instead.

So, I'm now in (currently) uncontested control of England with an incapable monarch and a claim against Rouen from Amiens, while my own chancellor is busy fabricating a claim on Gwent. Of course, Harald Hardrada and Tostig are both still alive in this universe - maybe with Harold gone Tostig will try for a claim on the English crown again.

EDIT: Played for another generation (William died, Robert who succeeded him was killed in battle, handing over to Richard who had pathetic stats all round; most of his former allies, including stalwart Odo, turned against him until he beat them in rebellion and imprisoned most of them). Morcar and Godwine remained perennial problems, even when imprisoned (and freeing them and offering them titles only worked for so long before they started scheming again - at one point they both declared war on me, supporting different claimants). I'm a bit puzzled about what I'm supposed to do with prisoners - I can keep them locked up indefinitely without penalty, but killing them is unpopular, however if I ever relent when they seem to have good relations, they're immediately up to their old tricks.

I let Godwine out after that rebellion since his neutral armies had helped out against the rebels, but he soon started plotting again. That time I actually seem to have blunted him - cajoling from my chancellor and a betrothal to a member of my dynasty eventually prompted him to disband his latest faction. I had Morcar assassinated in prison, but that may have been a mistake - although the duchess who replaced him had weak claims, and few of them, she started clamouring for independence and rebelled when I tried to revoke her title. I think the game's up now - she allied with Brittany and Scotland, which was something I could ordinarily deal with. But then I had a war declared on me by France, with a much superior army (my own claim to France had lapsed as it was from Mathilde, who was ousted before she died by Philippe reclaiming his throne). My military never fully recovered from a full attack I launched on Jerusalem as part of an unsuccessful crusade.

Yeah they need a chance for homosexual nobles to get burned at the stake or whatever the church did to them after they were done with the alter boys.

Active church (and social) approbation of homosexuality is a rather recent phenomenon for the most part, largely dating to the Victorian era. From what I gather it was only an issue in medieval times indirectly - such as with Edward II, who became unpopular due to favouritism towards his rumoured lovers (not an issue for heterosexuals generally given the low status of women - favouritism towards mistresses was not a threat to the political power of important nobles).

Though on the latter subject, the treatment of women in CK II is much more of an obvious historical error than its treatment of homosexuality - women and men appear equally likely to develop martial traits, for instance (even though women can't lead armies), and while their powers of succession are limited they are generally much more equal with men than their historical counterparts. Allies seem no less likely to help press a woman's claim to a title than a man's, which is certainly at odds with such things as the way Matilda was treated.
 
Goddamit. Looks like when CK2 updated with the latest patch, it made all my savegames incompatible. :(

I miss the days when you could manually install patches instead of steam doing it automatically. :(
 
Though on the latter subject, the treatment of women in CK II is much more of an obvious historical error than its treatment of homosexuality - women and men appear equally likely to develop martial traits, for instance (even though women can't lead armies), and while their powers of succession are limited they are generally much more equal with men than their historical counterparts. Allies seem no less likely to help press a woman's claim to a title than a man's, which is certainly at odds with such things as the way Matilda was treated.

On the subject of women, you also have other ahistorical issues such as agnatic-cognatic succession where daughters inherit before brothers (while realistically I think it would have been the other way around, but that is already too generous towards women for the timeframe) and most egregiously the concept of maetrilineal marriage. Although the latter I guess is an acceptable break from history for gameplay reasons.

Goddamit. Looks like when CK2 updated with the latest patch, it made all my savegames incompatible. :(

I miss the days when you could manually install patches instead of steam doing it automatically. :(

Hey, I think I recognize you... ;)

Anyhow, was the issue caused by switching from 1.11 to 1.111? If so was it mainly just more trait mix up? If you have saves from 1.11 that you continued into 1.111 and you applied one of the trait fix mods, you'll have to continue using the trait fix mod.
 
On the subject of women, you also have other ahistorical issues such as agnatic-cognatic succession where daughters inherit before brothers (while realistically I think it would have been the other way around, but that is already too generous towards women for the timeframe) and most egregiously the concept of maetrilineal marriage. Although the latter I guess is an acceptable break from history for gameplay reasons.

Looking at the details, most elements of Crusader Kings are anachronistic or simply wrong:

- I've been reading guides (having been struggling since I was reduced to being earl of Gwent) that suggest that armies with one "flank" outcompete those that can outflank their opponents, in opposition to all historical reason and evidence.

- The key to success seems to be making not just your vassals, but your vassals' vassals, happy, when the whole point of feudalism (encapsulated in the name) is "divide and conquer" - you put people below your vassals who dislike them more than they dislike you to avoid challenges to the central monarchy.

- It appears to be impossible to force peace with a faction that's an ally of a primary protagonist, or to prompt them to switch sides during the course of a given conflict, when in reality feudal history was particularly rife with this kind of backstabbing even within a single 'cassus belli'-prompted war.

- A feudal system that operates outside France in 1066, or anywhere in 867.

etc. etc.

So far, though, I'm loving the game because I've never played a game that gives as much of a feel for the broad sweep of medieval politics as this one - some of the historical inaccuracies in detail are actually required to make the game work that way (such as no alliances except through marriage or vassalage)

EDIT: Although this does of course mean that the game's original start date - Stamford Bridge - is an event that could never happen "organically" in the CKII game universe. As far as I'm aware Tostig wasn't allied with Hardrada through marriage and wasn't his vassal - he just turned up at court one day and apparently made a convincing pitch.

On the other hand, women becoming spymasters (or wanting to become chaplains) isn't at all required and is a little immersion-breaking when it happens.

EDIT: As it happens, on just starting up CKII the loading advice mentioned Agnatic-Cognatic allows females to inherit "only if there are no valid males", so perhaps the situation you describe is a bug or an oversight in coding (if both male and female have title to the same estate) rather than a deliberate feature.
 
- I've been reading guides (having been struggling since I was reduced to being earl of Gwent) that suggest that armies with one "flank" outcompete those that can outflank their opponents, in opposition to all historical reason and evidence.

Unintended/bug. Pdox said they fixed it, haven't played around with it since then.

- The key to success seems to be making not just your vassals, but your vassals' vassals, happy, when the whole point of feudalism (encapsulated in the name) is "divide and conquer" - you put people below your vassals who dislike them more than they dislike you to avoid challenges to the central monarchy.

Unless your vassals' vassals usurp the primary title (usually a duchy) they aren't your direct vassals and therefore have no impact on your realm IIRC.

- It appears to be impossible to force peace with a faction that's an ally of a primary protagonist, or to prompt them to switch sides during the course of a given conflict, when in reality feudal history was particularly rife with this kind of backstabbing even within a single 'cassus belli'-prompted war.

A common complaint, and a fair one. I agree.

- A feudal system that operates outside France in 1066, or anywhere in 867.

A common complaint by the so called "History Nazis" that often show up on the Pdox forums. Particularly in regards to Russia. What it boils down to is Pdox has to make the game somewhat consistent with itself, and they do not have the resources to give each country it's own gameplay. Not to mention the nightmare such a game would be to balance correctly for either the AI or the player. They decided the French feudal system (or whatever it is) worked best from a gameplay perspective, got that as good as they could, and then expanded the game to allow for (some) other sorts of nations as a secondary function.

On the other hand, women becoming spymasters (or wanting to become chaplains) isn't at all required and is a little immersion-breaking when it happens.

The spymaster thing I never really minded. Not sure why. As for the chaplain thing, that can only happen in pagan countries or mods. And in pagan countries, I was under the impression that women generally had more respect and more possibilities for certain types of powerful positions non-pagans rarely granted.
 
A common complaint by the so called "History Nazis" that often show up on the Pdox forums. Particularly in regards to Russia. What it boils down to is Pdox has to make the game somewhat consistent with itself, and they do not have the resources to give each country it's own gameplay. Not to mention the nightmare such a game would be to balance correctly for either the AI or the player. They decided the French feudal system (or whatever it is) worked best from a gameplay perspective, got that as good as they could, and then expanded the game to allow for (some) other sorts of nations as a secondary function.

And Dachs, etc. here on this forum.
What PhilBowles points out are certainly valid points; however, this is a game, it has to be fun, it has to get completed in a certain amount of time, and it has to be somewhat accessible. CK2 does have room for improvement, certainly, but it would not be such an enjoyable game if some of the srs bsns posters had their way. Indeed, it would not be a game at all.
 
Unintended/bug. Pdox said they fixed it, haven't played around with it since then.

Okay - that could well be the case, I don't know how old the guide was and don't know the system well enough to be able to attribute my own losses to a specific cause

Unless your vassals' vassals usurp the primary title (usually a duchy) they aren't your direct vassals and therefore have no impact on your realm IIRC.

Okay, that seems better. I struggle with the demesne system, though - when I revoke someone's title to restore my own lost holdings (since when I lost the crown of England I was reduced to 1 - and was still at 1 even when I reclaimed Normandy) I don't seem to necessarily get my demense size up. This seems to be my key problem - as I only ever have 1 holding my personal levies and my income are much too low for me to recover. I'm not sure what level of holding I need to have for it to count towards my demenses - one county?

I'm in a worse, and rather disorientating position, now, since Richard got dispossessed (apparently even of Gwent) when he lost Normandy, and my play transferred not to my heir (who's in a Byzantine court and refuses to come home - I presume that's why he never turned his betrothal into a marriage, because his prospective wife was at my court. But then, playing an Eastern Orthodox leader in Wales would be a ... unique ... challenge), but to his brother in Dijon (a territory I lost long ago) with a character and territory I know little about, and no alliances I can swing in my favour. This also counted as a whole new dynasty, since I lost my score to date.

I think it's time to try a new game rather than try and salvage that one with what I've since read about the system - I made obvious early mistakes in my marriage choices with my first rulers, with the result that my character's brother's dynasty ended up in charge of France and England while I got Gwent...

A common complaint by the so called "History Nazis" that often show up on the Pdox forums. Particularly in regards to Russia. What it boils down to is Pdox has to make the game somewhat consistent with itself, and they do not have the resources to give each country it's own gameplay. Not to mention the nightmare such a game would be to balance correctly for either the AI or the player. They decided the French feudal system (or whatever it is) worked best from a gameplay perspective, got that as good as they could, and then expanded the game to allow for (some) other sorts of nations as a secondary function.

Well, I think it's a gameplay choice that really makes the game what it is - and given the predominant focus of the setting I imagine the feudal system was non-optional from the start rather than a choice they made over a more dynamic or period-appropriate one.
 
On the subject of women, you also have other ahistorical issues such as agnatic-cognatic succession where daughters inherit before brothers (while realistically I think it would have been the other way around, but that is already too generous towards women for the timeframe) and most egregiously the concept of maetrilineal marriage. Although the latter I guess is an acceptable break from history for gameplay reasons.

I was always curious about the whole matrelineal thing, cause I abuse the hell out of it in CK2 :lol:
 
I was always curious about the whole matrelineal thing, cause I abuse the hell out of it in CK2 :lol:

Same here. How else was I in my most recent game able to spread my dynasty from a humble county in Sardinia to rule the Kingdom of Italy, France, England, Wales, Rus, Pechenegs, Cumania, Poland, Croatia, and the Empire of Spain within a century or so? :D (And a couple of random Duchies here and there) (I was also almost about to get to the ERE and Scotland too, though I have to drop that game because of new patch and more mod update work)

Pretty much at this point any major war in Europe not related to the HRE is just a serious family problem.
 
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