CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

Originally posted by mad-bax
Can we just take peace now for twenty turns, build as many tanks as possible, then try to take out India and then England. As a precaution we could gift England a 1 shield nothing town on our continent the turn b4 we declare.
Click to expand...

:confused: I'm too dense to understand why. Do you want to use that city for triggering a war through an MPP?

If Persia is at 90000 culture points we are in deep ****, excusez le mot. The only way to stop them getting that is hurt their core cities, War Weariness or communism will *not* stop them from building up culture. If we were a bit further in tech I would say bombard them to a pulp, but Advanced Flight is still a mile away.
 
Hi - apolgies that I've been kinda silent.

@Earp - only way I know of is to compare width of culture on POWERGraph, and then check out cult value. very unscientific, but hey..

Mapstat ? A util I haven't heard of. Downloads ?

I'm sure we could leave Eng with a 9 tile city somewhere.

On the POWERG , how do we rate in Prod ? If we're second or 3rd, we may have a longer term issue trying to out produce the Persias etc., in a war scenario.

Also, if we are pushing for Dominate win, we could probably grab the last few tiles from persia, if needed.
 
That would give us some room for maneuvring. In that case we could do the "peace now, build up giant army, walk over India and England"-scenario.

We could also press on a bit more in India now *and* build up an army. Moving the palace has done wonders for happiness.

If we want cash for spy planting and tech stealing we should make peace now.

I know it's a tough choice Mad and we can discuss this in depth before playing on. I think ChrTh needs to have his say in the matter also. Let's create some scenarios, discuss and vote.
 
Earp: OK. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
I will probably continue the war for now. I'm a little worried that now are approaching Indias core things might get a little tricky.
I'll do my best anyway.
 
@mad-bax: We took Delhi, which is (or rather was) their capital, so don't worry, just use those arties to soften them up.

edit: @Wanderer my tournament is non-existant for now, I'm not playing GOTM22 so I will need to play all the other games in 5 to really enter. I've downloaded 5-4 but I don't know whether I will bother. I like the SGs I'm in now and they take about all my civving time. There are some other things I want to try out solo too. I know Cracker does a wonderful job of creating interesting scenarios but I'm not so bored about the game that I really need those to enjoy the game.
Maybe 5-4 will fit the bill 'coz that one is just a randomly generated map.
What a shame they never got 'round to generating the results of tourny 4 :(
 
@space ... sad to hear it.

Delhi was a good grab. How far did their captial jump ?

I haven't had chance to grab sae and review yet. How are we looking in terms of our attack strengt. I read that we used cav to defend out artillery ? we don't want to lose that Art!

CiaO
 
@Wanderer: Luckily we have lots of arties :), two stacks of them. Those were defended by an elite inf who was defeated by two or three cavs. RNG will do that to you sometimes. There were cavs in that stack too so the stack survived. :) New infs were underway to defend it and are doing so now.
The other stack, which holds most arties, eight or nine IIRC, is defended by an inf army. :)
I guess all the smileys tell you I'm rather pleased about the way if left the game this time.

@mad-bax: I think I figured out why you want to have India have one city left. Persia will have to double everyones culture to achieve a 100k win. I can't look at the save now, but I konow the ither two have bigger culture than we do and won't lose what they have now unless we wipe them out. We would have measure bits again to know whether that 'll be feasible. Persia will keep growing culture were the other will virtually stop growing if we have or way. :satan:
 
1325: Pre-turn.
Hmm.. Lots of Cavalry finishing this turn. Buying the last turn of MT from Liz is cheaper then researching and will allow me to switch to tanks.
Buy MT from Liz for WM+189g.
Research Flight.
Switch a shed load of production to tanks.
Move some units to front line.

IBT:
Liz wants to renew ROP. Difficult decision, but I accept.
Ghandi wants peace. Errm.. Let me think about it. No!
Kyoto tank - tank
Grand River rax - tank (will never complete it)
Dark chocolate tank - tank
Delhi Flips :(

1330:
Retake Delhi - Temple
Capture Jaipuhr with Copernicus.
Found Nagasaki - Harbour

IBT:
Paris worker - worker
New York Courthouse - tank
Seattle hospital - tank
Sirp Orange tank - tank
Dark Green tank - tank
Kagoshima tank - tank
Nagoya temple - Library

1335:
Lots of worker turns.
Decide to delay attack on Bangalore for a turn to be sure of victory.

IBT:
Niagra Falls rax - Inf
Philadelphia rax - library
Osaka tank - hospital
Besancon rax - temple
Dk Chocolate tank - tank
Denver tank - tank
Izumo flips to the English

1340:
Moved troops. Worker turns. Bit of bombardment.

IBT:
Lost 3 Cavalry to Indian Cavalry.
Kyoto tank - tank
Boston riots - gieve them clown
Atlanta worker - worker
Seattle tank - tank
Kolaphur riots - give them clown
Dk Blue tank - tank
Detroit tand - tank
Baltimore tank - Uni
Edo tank - bank

1345:
Take Bangalore - Temple. It was bloody.
Start attack on Bombay, but not enough units.

IBT:
Cattaraugus riots. Give them Clown
Dk Chocolate tank - tank
Dk Humour tank - hospital
Baltimore riots. Give them clown
Satsuma hospital - tank
Rhiems tank - tank
New Karachi rax - library

1350:
Capture Bombay with Great Library (big deal).

So I manage to let 4 cities riot and two flip. I took 3 cities and re-took one flipped city. :smoke: I just don't do modern warfare.

Still. We do have 15 tanks now, and will be able to average 4 per turn I think.
Our main stack is in the forrest to the west of Bangalore. The artillery is in the stack under the army and this should be waitng its turn when you open the save. Note, the artillery has finished its' turn so don't move the army. There are some healing units in Bangalore.

That was quite tough. But I think we've broken the back of it now.

England has captured an inconsequential city on our continent.

What now guys?

Here is the <<save>>.
 
Looking good Mad :), too bad about the flips. I'd hoped to reduce the risk by reducing its size, but it was always a major risk.

Same goes for the new city in our colony.

I've looked at the save and saw we are still weak compared to the English. Maybe we should take a 20 turn time-out to build our army and cash. We are number 1 in income according to F11. :)

Another thing we should consider is stop researching. We do not need anything really (except, maybe, advanced flight) and we will never beat Persia to the Space Ship. So its either Diplo :) or Domination for us.

Persia is not going to double Englands culture yet. So we should try to be so ready for England that we can take them out in a very limited number of turns.

Those are just my rambling thoughts at the moment, what do you guys think?
 
I would try to get modern armour personally. But I have to say I agree with you.
If we sign peace now and build tanks like no tomorrow, build a few airports and airlift tanks to the other continent, then in 20 turns time we should have a shot at starting a concerted military campaign. I think war weariness is beginning to be unbearable ATM.

I wouldn't giv up on space yet. Persia are still in communism, so their research rate will be low. We just need to get a tech they don't have and we might be able to trade to parity. A little espionage to sabotage production and we could be OK.

Either way I think we need a breather, to get our second core producing lots of gold, for use either in trade, research, upgrading or espionage. We also need to rush some culture in our new cities.

It's going to be sooooo close. :)
 
I like the idea of turning off research. We are going to need the cash to rush temples in captured cities to reach the domination limit.

What would be the purpose of researching advanced flight? I have never found much use for paratroopers or helicopters. I would rather research computers in order to get Mech Inf.
 
Hey guys, I'm back.

I think we need to go for Domination; I agree with the mass armies at the border of England and attack stratagem.

One thing to be careful about: when you capture a city, you lose the extended culture; so even though our numbers will give us domination, we will lose some squares before we cash rush temples. I *don't* think we should take a breather; we've maxed WW by now, and the longer we wait, the more culture Persia will gain. It's either us via Domination or them via Culture at this point, why give them an advantage by waiting?

EDIT: I agree with turning off science. We'll steal tech from England in order to start War (or, um, steal Tech :) )

I would leave England a city (perhaps the one on our continent?) that way their culture will be a hedge against Persia -- put a ring around it, artillery it each round to keep it underpopulated and non-expansionary -- ... we grab all of England's current territory plus India, rush some temples, and bam, victory
 
I *think* the culture danger of Persia in not very acute yet because:

1. they are prolly at about 60k now (give or take some)
2. they are *not* doubling England

Point 2 makes me think we don't want England to lose cultural strength just yet. When we sign peace with India, we can run at (10.0.0) and we'll make almost 700g a turn. If we don't, we'll need 40% lux on the slider, that's a lot of gold we'll miss.
 
Or, we conquer India and WW fades again. The WW with England is not cumulative to what it gains with India, so we finish off India and as soon as possible start in at England.

I've noticed that when you reach this point in the game, Culture seems to increase exponentially. Even if Persia is *only* at 60,000, it would not surprise me if they were at 500/turn. That's only 80 more turns, which seems like a lot but at this stage isn't. What's more, that 500 is increasing each turn, so by the time they hit 100k, they'll probably be at 1000/turn.

Granted, as long as we keep England in the game they can't win. But unless you're hoping for a Diplo Win, delay will only help Persia; either they'll get the 100k and start their own war with England to get the victory, or they'll go for Space, which we will not be able to stop short of somehow getting nukes and effectively using them.

EDIT: Couple mo' thing (I hit Enter by accident)
Right now, England doesn't have Mech Inf. That can't last forever; once they get it, our tanks are effectively useless, and unless we somehow research ourselves up to MA, we can't take England.
In addition, a diplo win depends upon us conquering England entirely. While the AI is usually lousy at attacking another continent, we can't count on that. The last thing we want is to have to face Persia to win this game. The quicker we take out England, the less likely that is.
 
@ChrTh: I was half way of answering you when I found out there was more :). I agree with your last point. Thing is at the current rate it'll take us 15+ turns to get any decent amount of cash. At least 10 more turns to take out India and get rid of the WW and 5 more to build up cash.
Tough decision. :(

Welcome back, BTW :).
 
Well, my last point would've made more sense if I had typed 'domination' rather than 'diplo' :rolleyes:

Here's a compromise:
We finish off India entirely. We wait for Persia to complete the UN. If he calls a vote, we may win (I doubt Liz would vote for Xerxes, but she may abstain), if he doesn't call a vote, we attack England and hope she doesn't have MI yet. We then have 20 turns to defeat her (but keep one of her cities active) and get a dom win; otherwise we could lose the next vote....

You know, every way I wrap my mind around our situation, I see a possible loss, not a possible win. I think going for Dom is our best means of securing victory in this game, and I'm not a warmonger so this is an odd position for me to take. Every other way to win seems too complicated and has too many ifs involved.
 
You know what, I think the compromise could work :). Next players UP have to think of a way to conquer those last cities ASAP. Then after that we take our builders'/moneymakers' break to build up the final invasion force to tak out England. Good thing we already have a base in which we can move the units without violating borders.

@Earp: somehow I was thinking you needed Adv. Flight for bombers :smoke: (wasn't it like that in CivII?)
 
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