CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

This is vanilla civ3? If it's vanilla I probably wouldn't pop any huts unless the hut was on a mountain, or you pop it by placing a city down next to it. In PTW popping huts isn't as risky, because if you get barbs usually only 1 of them will attack you. In vanilla though all 3 will attack you and there's a very slim chance your exploring warrior will survive on deity. Then your cities may be in danger as well.

In PTW I'd only pop huts that are either really far away or are closer to another AI's cities than yours. I'd also be more likely to pop a hut that's on defensive terrain.

It's highly unlikely to get anything good from a hut on deity. Hell I've played expansionist civ's on deity and gotten several deserted huts in a row. It's quite common for a non-expansionist civ to get several barbs in a row. It's usually more of a disadvantage than an advantage.
 
Yep, thank-you very much for the expert knowledge Shillen, it is very much appreciated by us all as none of us have attempted diety before :p.

Good luck with your turn mad-bax, I look forward to taking over from you at some point in the near future :)
 
I'll discuss what I did in the morning. I'll just post a timeline and picture now. Just to let you know we now have contact with the french, all the first tier techs and Iron working. We have tech parity with both the other civs.

Timeline:

3000BC: Warrior 2 NE towards hill. Warrior 1 North.

2950BC: Warrior 1 North. Meet Polite Joan d'arc. Trade her Alphabet and Masonry for Ceremonial Burial + Wheel + 3gpt + 9g. Trade Americas Warrior code, Bronze Working and 60g for Alphabet. Abe goes to cautious. Switch research to writing.

2900BC: Warrior 2 NW. Warrior 1 East. Lux slider to 20% ready for pop increase.

2850BC: Warrior 1 E. Warrior 2 NW. Worker 1 South (BG).

2800BC: Warrior 1 NE. Warrior2 NW. Worker road tile.

2750BC: Warrior 1 NE. Warrior 2 NW.

2710BC: Granary Completed start Settler. Warrior 1 NE. Warrior 2 NW

2670BC: Worker Mine Tile. Micromanage citizen off forrest onto BG for growth in 2.Warrior 1 N. Warrior 2 NW.

2630BC: Warrior 1 N. Warrior 2 NW. Sider to 30% happy for pop increase.

2590BC: Warrior 1 N. Warrior 2 N. Trade Iron Working with Joan of Arc for 2gpt +120G.




VS1.jpg



The save is HERE!

Good luck SHard. :groucho:
 
Wow, good turn mad-bax. Consider this my official 'got it'. I could play it straight away but I think I will wait to allow people to discuss what we should do next. I'll load this up later and give my views.

Particularly well done on gaining tech parity with the other civs, I did not think this would be possible.
 
No Writing=No Contact

:love: Joan :love:

SHard: 1st Priority is getting another city online...someone want to attempt a dot-map?
 
Right, I've loaded up the game and had a look around. You seem to have taken a very good turn mad-bax. My thought is to send the first settler up to the grassland by the river, that is marked on your (mad-bax's) dotmap (not mine). After the settler what should we build? I think we should get a couple of spearman out to defend Kyoto and Osaka (I think this is Japan's second city). Defense should be one of our key priorities.

I am happy to leave research at min. level and I think we should check America and France regularly for any trading oppurtunites.

As far as our worker is concerned, I would like to road the already mined bg to try and increase commerce but this may not be the best move. After this, should I work the BG just to the north of Kyoto's border(soon to be adjacent to Osaka), or go to irrigate another floodplain to help Osaka be a worker pump.

Finally, I would not like to pop any further huts. Obviously I will steer clear of war. My view is that if an enemy civ makes a demand we give it to them. The unit advantage on diety may make an early war our last war.

Comments?
 
I agree with giving in to demands. If we keep our military strong, we won't receive many. I'll need to look at the save before I can give more opinions.
 
Also, just a quick question. In the north our warrior is right by a barb camp. Attack or flea? I would probably go for an attack, but I don't know deity level barbs too well..
 
Well, I just took my first ever turns in an SG, I hope they went OK. Below is my timeline report on my ten turn reign over the Japanese empire.

Turn 1 - 2550BC. Wow Joan has a lot of warriors. I counted seven move past our one lonely warrior-scout in the north west. Certainly want to avoid war with her. I continue to explore north with this warrior (for the sake of my reporting this shall be warrior 1). Warrior 2 attacks the barb camp, killing a barb at the loss of one 1HP, but is promoted to veteran status :).

Turn 2 - 2510BC. Kyoto produces settler, and I set it to build spearman. Ideally I would send an escort with the settler, but it will take Kyoto at least 4 turns to get that spearman out, so I send the settler to our preferred city site undefended. This may be a mistake, but we'll see. Warrior 1 continues northwards to try and find other contacts, however I am wondering if it might not be better to explore the land in our direct north to try and look for more decent city sites close to the capital. Warrior 2 beats a barb without damage and we gain 25 gold from the Uzbek Camp. Luxes dropped to 10% but we are temporarily losing 1 gold per turn.

Turn 3 - 2470BC. We establish contact with the Indians. We have a tech lead of Masonry, The Wheel and Iron Working over them. They can only offer 35 gold for each of them, I decide to leave this for now, an extra 35 gold isn't worth giving them one of those techs. Besides Ghandi is Polite already :). The Indians have 5 cities, as do the French. The Americans have 4. I notice that both Joan and Abe have Horseback Riding. Neither will sell for our 100 gold, but maybe they will trade to Indians and we can get it off them, we'll see. Warrior 2 uncovers a desert in the North East, Warrior 1 finds more jungle. Next big thing is to found Osaka. Once it is founded our economy goes to +3 per turn. I set it work the unmined bonus grassland. I tried it on the mined one, but the corruption meant it had the same output as the unmined one. Better having Kyoto using the mined square than the forest. I set Osaka to build a warrior. Luxs go back to 20% as Kyoto is size four again. +2 gpt.

Turn 4 - 2430BC. Worker completes mine, I send to road the mined BG in to the North. This may well be a mistake, so please correct me if it was, I am looking to learn (I figured it must have been left unroaded for a reason). I know the road leads nowhere, but the extra commerce it would provide would be good. The warriors generally explore, but I think Warrior 1 may have found out all it can up there. I will send it East next turn. Oh, and the Americans have founded next to the ivory to the sout west. They haven't actually taken the one we can see, but their border is next to it. Kyoto's culture doesn't expand to claim it for another 27 turns so we will see. No change as far as trades are concerned.

Turn 5 - 2390BC. I decided to keep the warriors going North, there was no route east for our other warrior and I didn't want to turn him around before we had completely explored the North. America now has writing, which Abe won't sell. Our writing is complete in 27 turns. I considered changing research but there isn't really much point, so I stick with writing. I tweak Japan's labourers so it will complete the spearman and grow next turn.

Turn 6 - 2350BC. The spearman completes and I decide to keep him in Kyoto. I can get him to Osaka in one turn in case of emergency, but he is saving us an extra 10% luxuries as military police in Kyoto. I order another spearman, but with Kyoto at size 5 perhaps I should have gone for a settler. It was my thought that we didn't want to stretch our military too much by getting a third city up before at least having enough defence to cover it. The settler will come after the spearman, which is due in 3 turns. Warrior 2 finds the Indian homelands in the North East.

Turn 7 - 2310BC. American warrior appears right next to our unprotected worker by Kyoto. I think we can trust him not to attack so I leave the spearman in Kyoto. Warriors explore etc. America and France both now have Mysticism, but India does not. I can't get any techs from Joan or Abe still.

Turn 8 - 2270BC. Osaka builds a warrior. I set it to build spearman, but the next player can change this if they like. Try to MM Kyoto, but there is no advantage to food or commerce in switching away from the shields. Send worker to work flood plain next to Osaka.

Turn 9 - 2230BC. Kyoto builds spearman. I leave this spearman in Kyoto to escort the settler which I have now set Kyoto to produce. MM Kyoto so it still grows next turn but now settler is due in 3 rather than 4.

Turn 10 - 2190BC. Barb approaches from the East. I send the spare spearman in Kyoto up to defend our worker. Luxs up to 30% to compensate for Kyoto's growth. There are now trade oppurtunities. I decided not to trade without consulting the rest of the team. The next player up can complete any trades, here are the possibilities:

-We can get writing +60g from India for Iron Working and The Wheel.
-We can buy Mysticism from France for around 110g
-We can buy Horseback Riding from France for 120g + 1gpt. (Note: If we get the trade with India we will have enough gold to buy this outright without gpt)

I suggest definately getting writing from India and then going for Literature or Code of Laws on Min Sci. Buying Mysticism or Horsebacking riding is a tough decision. I would say mysticism as it is cheaper, but Horseback riding does give us the horseman option. Also, if we get writing off India we may be able to sell communications, but I suspect they already know each other already. Still, worth looking.

Here is a picture of the Japanese empire at the moment. India is marked on as the borders don't show up. Someone want to dotmap this? I will try later on, I have work to do now.

CTR2190BC.jpg


The Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CTR1--2190_BC.SAV

Good luck, and I hope my turn went ok :)
 
We probably need to get our next settler NW asap to get the Horses...the Americans are getting close!
 
Note that when you sieze the horses, you want to try to make sure there's enough distance as possible between your city and the American city, to (1) reduce cultural warfare, which you will lose on Deity, and (2) to not raise American hostility toward you.

My recommendation is to found the city two tiles north-east of the horses. This gives a full four tiles between you and the American city. You can build the temple for 10 turns, which is how long it will take you to grow and then whip it.

If you weren't a religious civilization though, I'd say settle the city one tile NE of the horses, since it'd take you far too long to get your borders expanded.

-Sirp.
 
Ok, a dotmap attempt open for discussion:

dotmap2.jpg


These are the three directions to go. The red (or orange) has the highest priority. Secondly the (light)blue and the greens are after those IMO.

On the red its grabbing more land and has fewer desert, the orange is closer, so more quickly settled and can share the mined BG.

The dark blue is three tiles away, the light grabs more land and has eventually access to silk.

The light green grabs the whale and is on the river, the dark green grabs more land.

BTW guys, do we need so many spears? We need to grow quickly, warriors are cheaper and we will try our hardest not to get into war. I don't know whether the AI will calculate quality of defence or merely quantity. (:confused: One of the Deity vets: anyone of you knows this ? )
 
Based on Sirp's comments above, the orange/red city should be founded one tile North of the orange dot in order to limit cultural pressure from the Americans. We will have to rush a temple in the city in order to get the horses.

I like the dark green and dark blue dots. I think we should try to expand to the northwest to cut off the Americans and found a city on the block of dyes to our east.
 
Good dotmap space. I agree that we should go one tile north of the orange dot. My next priority is one of the blue dots, however I am not sure which site is strongest. Being the builder that I am I probably would choose light blue, however perhaps given this is deity and survival is more important dark blue could be a wise choice. Tighter city placement is definately one of the areas of my game I'm kean to work on, so founding on dark blue would give me a chance to see how it works out.
 
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