CTR1 -- Jump Without Looking (the Deity Virgin Sacrifice)

Just to not be misunderstood, I was commenting on our position in general, as requested, not on Mad Bax's turn specifically.

ChrTh you're right that the Iron would not be within city limits in any of the city placements suggestions. I did notice though the Dark Chocolate was not on the spot indicated by both SHard and myself. I think it's good SG etiquette to explain why, if you decide not to found there. Otherwise why would anyone bother to make dotmaps at all?
 
I consider my wrist slapped. I didn't found the city there for 2 reasons. 1st I thought it was the agreed place from memory but was wrong. And second the city got founded a turn earlier and a road to it lots of turns earlier. But mainly it was just poor memory.

We will still get the cattle.

Are we still mates Space?
 
That's just why I felt I could tell you this, like mates do. :)

The thing is that we need to communicate to pull this one off. If we don't know the reasoning, we have to make assumptions, which of course could be totally wrong. We only play 10 turns each so for any type of consistency, which we will need at this level, we have to agree on strats for city placement, build queues, the lot.

Ok, I've done my :rant:... I'll be pleasant now... :)

I agree on the galley trying to find another continent. Do we still miss only one civ? If that is the case and we could pull off a palace jump that would be great! It would be a first for me, so I'm all for it. And as you say it would give us a chance to balance our current core. :goodjob:

Space
 
Got these done quite quickly. Hope they are ok :)

1000BC: Galleys have a hunt around. We only need contact with Persia. Drop luxes to 0%. +19gpt.

IT: America found on gold hill in south and load a new settler onto a boat. Yikes.

975BC: Galley in North spots Persia :) Osaka settler headed for iron. Osaka building new settler - we need to expand.

950BC: Dark-blue worker -> Barracks. We are in desperate need of military and vets are so much better than regs. I switch Dark-Chocolate from worker to barracks for same reason. Worker here would mean it stayed at size 1 for another 10 turns. Meet Persia. Trades;

-Trade CoL + Poly to Persia for 331gold + WM. They will get all this tech when we sell contact anyway; so we may as well get the gold.
-World Map + Contact with Persia to Ameircans for 464 gold :)
-Contact with Persia to France for 185 gold (all they had) and their world map.
-Finally Persia contact to England for 69 gold and world map (all they had).
BTW - Persia is huge and leading the game.

With all this gold I'm thinking hold off connecting the iron (if we get it) - build the much cheaper warriors - and then mass upgrade to swords. Let's see what happens.

925BC: Dyes are online :) Thinking of city placement, Dark-Chocolate seems to be in a different spot to the dotmaps. With this in mind, I will go in to grab cattle and iron with one city. MM Kyoto for max shields. Horses are online also. We could build horseman which upgrade to samauri remember. France will sell currency, but not any good brokering oppurtunites as of yet. What to do with galley that found Persia? I reckon send him home.

IT: Indian galley attacks our second galley? But yet we are not at war? We lose the galley but still aren't at war? Did I see this right? I seem to remember this happening to me before, anyone else ever seen anything like this?

900BC: Befuddled by that one. India is still polite, hmm.

875BC: America and India have The Republic, France has currency. I really don't want to slip behind in tech. England, Iroquois and Persia are down construction, I figure I may as well scrape up the loose change from them to help us out. Trades;

-Construction to Persia for 61 gold + WM
-Construction to England for 21 gold + WM - this pains me, but we probably wouldn't get anything if we held off.
-I bite the bullet and buy currency for 772 gold + WM from France. We are now in middle ages - I switch research to Engineering. We still have 34 turns on our Monarchy run and we will never get there before the AI.
-Buy Republic for 595 gold, currenct and WM off America.
-Squeeze 308 gold out of Ghandi for Currency
-Sell Republic to Joan for 712 gold.

Net: Gain 2 techs for 265 gold :) Tech parity re-established.

I switch to republic. We're religious so 1 turn anarchy. We have 2 luxes online, silks will be on in next 10-15 turns - unhappiness shouldn't be a problem.

850BC: Japan becomes a republic. MM Osaka. Luxs -> 10%, to cover Osaka - small price for republic. + 21 gpt compared to +19 pre-turn. Slight improvement. We're looking good to get the iron.

825BC: Kyoto Settler -> You guys want a temple in Kyoto? I must say I don't think this will improve our chances of keeping the Ivory. I say go for barracks, but I order up temple anyway because neither will finish in my turn and we can discuss this later. Unless - are we trying to flip Atlanta? Dark-Green Harbor -> Barracks. Send Kyoto settler across towards the game in the south. May be a bit cramped but Detroit looks flippable. Certainly no better options around. America, India + Persia have monotheism but there is no point buying it now.

800BC: Sirp-Orange Spear -> Horseman. Need military. We got the iron! Edo founded 1 tile east of Iron as ChrTh suggested. Order up warrior. Start roading silks.

IT: France get Great Lighthouse, India get Great Library.

775BC: I hurry the warrior in Edo. That barb camp is still showing in the south and I don't want to take any risks. 36 gold for the warrior or potentially close to 130 if we get ransacked? Start roading hill to try and connect Edo and then the iron ASAP. Tokyo is seizing up in the North. Temple will bring in umpteen more jungle tiles :) (but will stop the flip - I know). At size 2 I have to rope in a scientist to keep the peace in Tokyo :). This means I can switch temporarily to 0% sci and net some more gold. Tokyo will starve though - no way around this unless I up lux tax. Monotheism going for around 750gold. Not worth it without brokering oppurtunities.

IT: Err.. call me a psychic but up pops a barb horseman next to Edo.

750BC: Have a crack at the horseman with our warrior - we win without a hp loss. Sci. back to 10% as Tokyo starves. Our galley is in Iroquois territory - shouldn't cause problems.


Settler is standing where I think we should found next city. Gets fish and game and is coastal. Not too close to dark-green. Picture attached.

ctr1750bc.JPG


Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CTR1--750BC.zip
 
good turn :goodjob:

I vote to switch Kyoto to barracks. I do not think a temple will help us keep the Ivory and I think we need some vet troops.

I like the plan of building cheap horsemen and then upgrading them to Samurai when we get Chivalry and connect iron. I am playing a different SG right now as the Japanese and the Samurai proved to be very powerful. The high defense and ability to retreat are very nice.

Will Tokyo's relative closeness to that Indian city cause the Indians to declare war on us?
 
SHard. Tooo good! I think we might start to turn the corner soon.
Persians look powerful and the Indians have gone mad. The american lands have the best shiel value. So I vote we start to gear up for a war against them any time soon. Shard I agree with the troops statement. I tend to build shed loads of workers, especially in jungle games, but in this case taking improved lands with the UU are our best option. We'll get our golden age with the Samurai and so we could peg back the AI a bit.

Tokyo will flip eventually, but it will take a while against the temple. I would wat until we get monotheism and get a cathederal there pretty quick. I doubt it would flip then. The Cathedral is the same price as a library to us as you know.

Again, well done, good turns.
 
Persians are going to be a tough cookie to crack...if we do go to war with America, we need France as our ally :love:

Tokyo will hold out if we get a Temple and get it connected...of course, getting it connected may be the hard part.

Let's not start a War just for the sake of starting a War. This is Deity, and we could get reamed if we don't do it right.
 
I concur, good turn!

Pity the island of Persia isn't a bit smaller. I agree on the next city on the game and fish. I do think a temple in Kyoto would not be bad. It is hard to keep up in culture on Deity, and it looks like enough cities are building raxes at the moment (45% of them :)). Specialist cities are the fashion in SGs and I think Kyoto will keep building settlers a little while yet. Do we need to try get a foothold on the Persian island?

The picture shows Temples in border cities and Raxes in inner cities, looks good!

Earp: according to Sirp it won't help his attitude regarding us, but as he's still polite, so it seems not to be a problem yet.

edit: wow triple post-crossing, got to be some record.
 
Originally posted by ChrTh
Persians are going to be a tough cookie to crack...if we do go to war with America, we need France as our ally :love:
Click to expand...

Agreed. So lets get an embassy set up with France and India. America and India have had a military alliance b4. If we war with either of them the other is likely to side with them unless we ingraciate ourselves.

I am not proposing we go to war now. I think that what Shard says is the most accurate way to play the position. Build horse like they're going out of fashion and upgrade with our cash 1st turn we have Chivalry. Hit the Americans immediately, take them down to one city. Broker peace for everything they have. Easy. :)

Edit: Where I work the term "reamed" is always used in the sentence "I'll ream you an A!se like the Japanese flag". Quite fitting really.

I also would like to leave the Americans with Detroit. It has particular significance to me. A friend of mine flew there on business, got in his hire car and at the first set of traffic lights he came to a gang of kids game and stole all his wheels, leaving the car on the floorpan. He made the local news.
 
Building on the Persian island is a doomed venture, they're too strong to prevent flipping.

I think we'll want to take all the American cities, including Detroit :hammer:

Even though they are lousy spots, we should build as many cities in the jungle as we can. Once we get a worker army going, the cities may be somewhat productive later in the game. In addition, they'll deny the Indians the territory. (No more than 2 spaces between cities)

Roster:
ChrTh
Space Oddity
Mad-Bax
SHard << Just Played
Wanderer << UP
Earp << On Deck
Infoman << Dropped?
 
Originally posted by ChrTh
Building on the Persian island is a doomed venture, they're too strong to prevent flipping.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're probably right.

I just looked at the save and I saw that we are able to trade silks to the Amaricans for 6 gpt + 8g (and that's even without haggling). Since we won't be attacking him very soon how about getting his money now to use it on our invasion force later? :satan:

edit: just haggled and 7 gpt + 8g + WM is as high as he'll go, it is all he has now...
 
Do you all usually sell your world map to each civ every turn? I opened the save and noticed that Lizzy and Hiawatha will each give us 5 gold for our WM.
 
The point in leaving the Americans with one city is that if we wipe them out completley in one go we won't be able to extort stuff out of them. I would normally check the diplomacy screen throughout the war to find the time when I can extort all the cities (except the capital) and all the techs. If you can get gpt as well then fine. It is then fairly straightforward to take the last remaining city after 20 turns if we like. However, leaving the last city and then gifting all techs will allow us to renegotiate peace every 20 turns for techs or gold. In this way the war lasts fewer turns and costs fewer units. Typically I would expect to get the last 2 cities and any techs in the peace deal. I find that this is best done by taking all but one of the biggest cities and leave the pop1 cities alone. He will then be left with his biggest remaining city (of our choice). He will be no threat, but the city will be productive enough to make gold and sometimes a tech, which we can utilise as if it were our own city in effect.

Our biggest problem is in preventing the Indians taking sides with the americans. Directly b4 the war we could give the Indians something worth 100g and sign an ROP with them. We could try for a military alliance, but I expect the cost would be high.

On another note: It might be a good idea to think about getting persia involved in a war with the other overseas Civs just to slow them down a bit. We would need to be careful though because they have the immortal and any war would trigger their GA.
 
The issue with leaving one city behind is that we'll have to deal with less productive captured cities until the Americans are wiped out, and they'll probably riot when war recommences. If we have a steamroller going, and the opportunity to eliminate them is there, we should probably take it.
 
How soon are we planning to get this war going? Tech pace is so fast we'll have samauri in no time. We would ideally attack pre-musketman, but I'm not sure that will be possible. My suggestion is to build horsemen now (as mad-bax said) and then go for the upgrade. This means we have two courses of action;

-Hold off the iron
-Hold off getting Chivalry

I wouldn't reccomend holding off the iron at this stage. We would like pikeman for defence reasons. Holding off chivalry won't be too tricky. It is an optional tech so we are fine to ignore it as it won't hinder our tech progress. We'll need a pretty big invasion force if we are to succeed, but even taking a couple of cities to extend our core to the west could qualify as a success. We certainly do want to war I think. Using the samauri to get the GA is crucial.

Lets see what happens in Wanderer's turns :)
 
Lot's of commentary here. I'm reviewing it now.

This is my GOT IT post.

I'll post plans before playing.

CiaO
 
Hmmm ... we seems to be building 4 barracks, 3 temples, a horse and a settler in our 9 town empire. We're going to eat into our gpt numbers ...

Is the general consensus to switch Kyoto to barracks, push temple for tokyo, then cathedral when we can. After barracks production ( it looks like 3 should end in my turn) you want to go for horsemen ?

Look to establish embassies if possible with France and India.

Trade WM for money as often as possible ?

Build new city where settler is now.

try and connect iron.

Where do we want our settler from Osaka to go ? We can go north try use settler to get culture link to Tokyo, and clear a square of jungle, or East to more open area...
 
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