Culture and what it is

[RedRalph]

Some things are obviously elements of culture, such as art, but what do you consider to be cultural elements and what is your definition of culture?

 

[crabapple]

Culture unites and/or seprates people into diffrent groups. Culture shows simitaries and diffrences between people

 

[holiday_hawk]

That is a hard one to define, but i would do it as the values, religion, art, and customs of a people. Anything can be an element of culture, in our society T.V. is an element as that is what many people do and how they learn things in industrialized countries. In other places something non-tangible could be art, like a right of passage in Africa, as that is one of their customs.

 

[ComradeDavo]

It's varied so it's hard to say. I mean some people like to divide culture by regions/nations. I mean someone might say I was of British (or English) culuture. Personally i'd say a more accruate way would be to describe myself by the various sub-cultures I belong to...aka i'm a metalhead who plays games workshop games...thus I belong to the 'Alternative' culture (alternative being a broad range of people into rock, metal, goth etc) and within that more the 'metal' and 'goth' and 'industrial' cultures, and also I belong to the 'war gamers' culture, more specifically those who collect/play warahmmer 40k.

So yeah, it's complicated.

 

[RedRalph]

That is a hard one to define, but i would do it as the values, religion, art, and customs of a people. Anything can be an element of culture, in our society T.V. is an element as that is what many people do and how they learn things in industrialized countries. In other places something non-tangible could be art, like a right of passage in Africa, as that is one of their customs.

hmm... now I personally would see Religion as a seperate thing to culture. both can influence each other, but I consider them two different entities.

Would anyone consider dialects, and linguistic memes culture? I think there is a very small scale OT culture, as regards in jokes, references to past posts and posters etc

 

[Winner]

Some things are obviously elements of culture, such as art, but what do you consider to be cultural elements and what is your definition of culture?

Pretty much everything what's man made. Usually, what we call "culture" is the language, customs and traditions, religion and its rituals, simply put the way of life of some group of people. It's almost impossible to define it precisely.

 

[holiday_hawk]

i can see dialects part of culture, even in the US how you speak refers to where you come from and the type of culture you come from. A drawn out voice it means you from the south and i can associate your culture with you, and there is many other types of dialects just here in the states, let alone the rest of the world.

 

[RedRalph]

Pretty much everything what's man made. Usually, what we call "culture" is the language, customs and traditions, religion and its rituals, simply put the way of life of some group of people. It's almost impossible to define it precisely.

True, but I think you cant just say everyting man made as some things which are completely utilitarian arent really cultural in my views (I'm well aware in the past they were). but things which are hugely mass produced and are for no use other than practical ones and have no intentional aesthetic value, like for example, plumbing, JCBs, Miners helmets, biros etc to me are nothing to do with culture. I think for something to take on a cultural value it has to have some attribute which is there for its own sake, be it an artistic one, a mannerism or a hairstyle.

 

[Winner]

True, but I think you cant just say everyting man made as some things which are completely utilitarian arent really cultural in my views (I'm well aware in the past they were).

Tell that to the archeologists, who describe the late stone age cultures from their ceramics, cutting tools etc. Even the tools are made in certain way which is often different between two groups of people:

I think most people can guess where these sword came from. Similar function, different shape and decoration. Yeah, it's also related to culture.

but things which are hugely mass produced and are for no use other than practical ones and have no intentional aesthetic value, like for example, plumbing, JCBs, Miners helmets, biros etc to me are nothing to do with culture. I think for something to take on a cultural value it has to have some attribute which is there for its own sake, be it an artistic one, a mannerism or a hairstyle.

Mass production in a globalized world is fairly new thing (last century or so). Yu're right that things like Coca-Cola, modem or compact disc don't tell you anything about the people who use them, but that's entirely caused by the fact that these things are produced in a globalized world and are meant to be used in many countries.

On the other hand, handmade decorations, design furniture (except IKEA, you see) - things like that do differ, because they are meant to be sold to people of certain cultural background.

 

[RedRalph]

Tell that to the archeologists, who describe the late stone age cultures from their ceramics, cutting tools etc. Even the tools are made in certain way which is often different between two groups of people:

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/images/european-sword-and-scabbard.gif[/IMG



I think most people can guess where these sword came from. Similar function, different shape and decoration. Yeah, it's also related to culture.[/QUOTE]


Aarrrghhh!!! I even underlined it, how could you possibly miss it???


[QUOTE]Mass production in a globalized world is fairly new thing (last century or so). Yu're right that things like Coca-Cola, modem or compact disc don't tell you anything about the people who use them, but that's entirely caused by the fact that these things are produced in a globalized world and are meant to be used in many countries.[/QUOTE]

True, but that dosent really change it. I suppose it tells that our culture has become more globalised, but that in itself is really more of an economic thing than a cultural one.

[QUOTE]On the other hand, handmade decorations, design furniture (except IKEA, you see) - things like that do differ, because they are meant to be sold to people of certain cultural background.[/QUOTE]

My point exactly.

 

[lovett]

[...] what do you consider to be cultural elements and what is your definition of culture?

The Zeitgeist. The atmosphere a group of people create. The shared tensions, rituals and knowledges a group of people share. Almost anything (everything) can constitute this.

hmm... now I personally would see Religion as a seperate thing to culture. both can influence each other, but I consider them two different entities.

I don't think you can really make a supportable distinction between Religion and culture, except by defining Religion as a subset of culture. In the same way as things like literature, music or television might be called subsets of their amalgamation-culture.

As an example, just try separating Christianity from European culture circa the Middle ages. Your really not left with much. No Sistine Chapel or last Judgement. No Notre-Dame Cathedral. No Thomas Aquinas. Precious little music. So on and so forth.

 

[RedRalph]

I don't think you can really make a supportable distinction between Religion and culture, except by defining Religion as a subset of culture. In the same way as things like literature, music or television might be called subsets of their amalgamation-culture.

As an example, just try separating Christianity from European culture circa the Middle ages. Your really not left with much. No Sistine Chapel or last Judgement. No Notre-Dame Cathedral. No Thomas Aquinas. Precious little music. So on and so forth.

you think there would have been no music or art without religion in the middle ages? undoubtedly relgion influenced culture but it wasnt the reason it existed. Athiests have culture too. they are linked, but sperate. thats why countries with identical religions, like Poland and Mexico, can have extremely different culture, and countries with similar culture, like Ireland and England, can have different religions.

 

[lovett]

you think there would have been no music or art without religion in the middle ages? undoubtedly relgion influenced culture but it wasnt the reason it existed. Athiests have culture too. they are linked, but separate.

Sure there would. But it certainly wouldn't be European music or art. It would be radically different from anything we'd recognise today. For the better part of a millenia Christianity informed and staurated pretty much every part of European culture. From Judeo-Christian morality to the frescoes and sculpture of Michelangelo, it was all inextricably linked to religion. I can't see how you can really separate the two. At least, not any more then one can separate literature or television from culture.

 

[RedRalph]

Sure there would. But it certainly wouldn't be European music or art. It would be radically different from anything we'd recognise today. For the better part of a millenia Christianity informed and staurated pretty much every part of European culture. From Judeo-Christian morality to the frescoes and sculpture of Michelangelo, it was all inextricably linked to religion. I can't see how you can really separate the two. At least, not any more then one can separate literature or television from culture.

I think what you are saying is that you cant seperate medieval European culture form Christianity, which I agree is true, but I am sayting that religion per se can be seperate from and is not an inherent part of culture. Do I have you right?

 

[Till]

you think there would have been no music or art without religion in the middle ages? undoubtedly relgion influenced culture but it wasnt the reason it existed. Athiests have culture too. they are linked, but sperate. thats why countries with identical religions, like Poland and Mexico, can have extremely different culture, and countries with similar culture, like Ireland and England, can have different religions.

One might say that religion is one of the biggest source of cultural differences between Ireland and England.
As for the Poland Mexico comparison: of course they have vastly different cultures. I don't think anybody made the claim that religion equals culture; just that religion is a large subset of it.
Try comparing "Mexican" culture before and after Christianity became the main religion. Or that of Ireland, if you prefer.
There are not many things that effect a culture as much as a change in religion (and be it a change towards secularism), since religion tends to affect almost every aspect of a person's life.

 

[lovett]

I think what you are saying is that you cant seperate medieval European culture form Christianity, which I agree is true, but I am sayting that religion per se can be seperate from and is not an inherent part of culture. Do I have you right?

Yeah pretty much. Religion doesn't have to be an integral part of culture, but more often then not I'd say it is (was). I.e, You certainly don't need religion to create a culture, but by dint of being such a powerful and widespread influence it usually is part of culture.

 

[Rossiya]

"Culture" is something that can be defined as "undefinable".

 

[Perfection]

Out of the ass definition:

The shared nonbiological traits and behaviors of a group of humans.

 

[Fifty]

Out of the ass definition:

The shared nonbiological traits and behaviors of a group of humans.

The traits have to be sufficiently robust in order for them to become culture-making traits. For instance, I don't think the group of "all people currently tying their shoelaces" forms a culture or is a culture or whatevs.

 

[Perfection]

The persistant shared nonbiological traits and behaviors of a group of humans?