Culture (Unit + Quarter) Speculation Thread

[SuddenAppearance]

Hi Krajzen!
1 & 2) As they told, pikemen AND great swordmen update to halberdiers. The saboteurs are separated, The line from great swordmen turns down very near the saboteur box to join the pikemen one, you have to zoom really close to see it.
4) Yeah, it seems there's a separated line of kind of "heavy cavalry" in the classical era. Gothic cavalry coming from chariots seemed strange to me, but I cheked it in the opendev and it's like that.
6) The siege weapons line ends with trebuchet. Another line starts after that the artillery one, with the mortar. Another line also starts that I asume is artillery agains infantry, cannons.
7) There's instant embarcation, but the embarcation in which you embark ( :V) can be updated.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I was honestly surprised by Musket being an upgrade of Crossbow, I expected them to go civ route of Musketmen being an upgrade of melee infantry and ranged units being something else.

Technically that was what happened in real life. Arquebus and Musket was initially (15th century) the replacement of Longbow/Crossbow, while the common infantry still uses Pikes (thus came the Pike and Shot infantry in 15-16th century; it was not necessarily an anti-cav only formation IRL). It was not until the spread of flintlocks (around late 17th century) did Pikes really become obsolete since flintlocks could fire much faster than traditional muskets.

 

[Narcisse]

I think it's the integration of tactics with the bayonets which definitively put an end to the use of the pike and the halberd. The halberd which already had a minimal role, and served to protect the rear.
So I suppose than Arquebusier and Halberdier will merge into the industrial infantry, which in screenshot seems to be a gunner with a bayonnet.

I think than a vip said to us than the Haudes EU is similarly different as the Mexican EU. So it's maybe separated of the arquebusier, and it's the janissary instead.

The best quality I found to this image : https://i.imgur.com/KQqCit2.jpg

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Hi Narcisse! Thank you very much, it's so much clear in this one, you can even compare the logos. Here is an updated tree. Most notably:
1) Melee and saboteur emblematics coming in industrial. Also a probable artillery one.
2) 2 lines of armored vehicles, probably, plus apparent mechanized infantry, with an emblematic one.
3) Modern emblematic spy related unit but with another role, as it's not stealthy.
4) Stealth emblematic ship coming in late modern, appart from submarine (stealth ship?).
5) Uboot replaces a naval unit that is not stealthy, so probably the submarines are unique for Germans in Industrial.
6) Late early modern ship that upgrades to something with armor (maybe dreadnought)
7) Emblematic fighter coming in early contemporary (not a surprise)

About the Haudes EU. If you look at the tree the musket turns into Jannisary, as Haude EU seems to have a different role, they had to be put in the early early-modern, so it coexists with musket but doesn't replace it. Also, the length of the letters inside the box match very well with the enormous name "rotiskenrakehte".

Heres the updated tree!
https://imgur.com/a/pJRc66o

 

[Narcisse]

hey really great work ! I wonder if there will be a generic cavalry in industrial, or another emblematic cavalry unit, we saw a cavalry unit in the openDev outro


Well the line which come from Winged Hussars, could become a generic gunner cavarly, and the emblematic tied to it, could be Cossacks.
And my screenshot is maybe just a generic Qajar cavalry. So Siamese get elephant, Russians the Cossacks, Zulu the melee unit, Iranian the spy-saboteur unit (Royal Footman)

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Nice one! effectively, the generic one is ranged cavalry, as it shares logo with markabata, gajnar and dhanvi gaja (mounted range logo). But the replacement is just a emblemtic foot rifleman (probably a fast one), as it doesn't have any "mounted related" logo. Not the horse, nor the mounted range one. So probably, there will be no emblematic ranged cavalry.

And if I were to speculate, i would say that we'll get katyushas as emblematic rocket launcher for the soviets. (square with missile + some kind of bombardment logo), with no other rocket launchers in contemporary, but I won't write that down on the tree.

Here another updated map:

https://imgur.com/a/MCV7cjo

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Also, sorry for double post (can this be joined with the last one?), but i think that the helicopter (Thank you MasterPaw on discord , sorry!!! forgot to mention in my excitement!! ) and machine gun are very clear. The helicopter for the logo and that you can almost read "helicotper gunship" and the machine gun because of the role and because you can see one big word and one small word which match very good with "machine gun", and there's not better place for it. I know is a little bit speculative at this level. The lock symbol, in rocket cart, machine gun and probably, the siamese elephant, is, most probably, that it cannnot attack and move in the same turn.

Another map (edit: Added the name for the two early early-morder ships given by Narcisse):
https://imgur.com/a/ImJ5Y5I

 

[Narcisse]

I don't now if these names are outdated now, or just placeholder, but in the tech tree we spotted in an old video, the two generic ships of Early Modern Era were the "Transport Caravela" (with Fluyt in the same tech) and the Carracks (with Turtle Ship an Galleass in the same tech), and I suppose than one of the late early modern ship will be a Galleon, or a Monitor.

I say placeholder because Francis Milites were named Capetian Knights for exemple.

 

[MasterPaw]

I think both missile and H bomb here have a icon in common which would be "Launchable missileé or something like that, and nuke icon

Also I dont agree that your foot infatry EU remplacing ranged cavalry, the arrow icon for me just has something to do with extra movement ability, as not every cav has it. I think it could be the siamese elephant

Im not sure for the Cart line too as it seems there is a "Lock" icon which i dont see why it would apply here, although i dont know where else it could be

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Hiya MasterPaw!
So the reasoning is this: All units have two icons max, all cavalry units has at least either the horse (melee cav), the nomad logo (hordes), or, if they are ranged the weapon that they use + some kind of bonus. All ranged cavalry, except the mauryan elephant, share the same logo, that thing that looks like an arrow. The mauryan elephant has another one, the resistance against melee one, I supose. If the unique unit that replaces ranged cavalry would be another kind of ranged cavalry, I would expect them to have, at least the same logos than the normal ranged cavalry one, or, at least, another one with more importance, as the mauryan elephant. In this case, there's no logo and just a free slot, which coincides only with foot infantry.

The lock icon, I explained above my interpretation for it.
"The lock symbol, in rocket cart, machine gun and probably, the siamese elephant, is, most probably, that it cannnot attack and move in the same turn." - which doesn't convince me for the elephant, but well...
The cart has to go there, because there's no other place for a unique unit (edge bordered in darker color) in that era that is not taken by more obvious choices. Could be also that the lock means some kind of supression for the unit being attacked, maybe making them not able to move.

You know what? Forget about not firing after moving, supression is a much better idea for machine guns and rocket cart.

PS: YES! those are clearly missiles!!!!

 

[MasterPaw]

Yes you are right, lock must be suppression; however i think hitite chariot had suppression too and im not sure to see this icon for them
Also i have checked from another picture where we see all air unit, it doesnt seem there will be 2 type of nuke, only the basic one i guess
And it seem there are 2 missiles things (one upgrading in another one)
Also an extra one i don't know what it could be
I wonder if paratroopers would be a thing

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Well well well... and the one that you labelled "missile" seems to be an emblematic unit! Maybe emblematic cruise missile! (bordered in dark colour) Tomahawk?

 

[MasterPaw]

So you think there is a classic missile and a EU one? or a classic one with EU + a upgrade?
because it seems EU always have vertical alignement

 

[SuddenAppearance]

EU always have vertical alignmentI when it's a direct replacement (same tech). They have this small arrow joining them. Horizonat EUs could mean coexisting units (praetorian is horizontal to swordman) or uniqune upgrades (we don't have any example of this in the same era), so I'm more inclined to the first option, but both are good.

In the other image, you can see the bordered box better. I'll attach it with an small explanation. Also, the most normal option given the information we have is that both could coexist

And here's also a new map. The "bomber" upgrades from fighter, so, probably, not exactly a bomber but a multi purpose advanced aircraft? I'ts kinda strange.

https://imgur.com/a/l2Hdhlv

 

[MasterPaw]

no i think i get it
biplan into fighter (+ 1 EU fighter)
same tier than fighter bomber
both bomber and fighter upgrade into advanced fighter/bomber (+1 EU)

I assumed it were 2 fighter EU but ther eare 2 lines and no direct link like for eu

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Yeah, we reached the same thought for this, I think is the most logical explanation!!
We've really extracted a good deal of information from this image!! Let's see what thursday brings to feed our research.

 

[Narcisse]

hey ! for the "Arrow Symbol", I know what it's meaning : Egyptian Markabata and Khmer Dhanvi-gaja have the same skill named : "Move and Fire : Can keep moving after making an attack"
For the Mauryan Elephant it's another emblematic skill "Platform : Ignore penalities from fighting in melee". The Carthaginian War Elephant has a different trait too : "Trample : Stronger when attacking weaker Units".
For the supposed unique footman rifleman, it's weird, I think it's the only EU of the poster without trait, when the generic variant has the "Move and Fire" trait.

 

[MasterPaw]

btw apparently it got confirmed on the stream that this was a cruise missile (from stadia demo trailer)

How can I make this picture not taking so much space in the thread? fixed thanks

Spoiler :

 

[8housesofelixir]

btw apparently it got confirmed on the stream that this was a cruise missile (from stadia demo trailer)

By the look of things this missile was launched from a Quarter: note the hexagon shape below it, and there are also fences to separate it from the nearby "industrial" quarters.
Probably means no Civ-like missile base as an improvement (although I quite like it, more flexible).

How can I make this picture not taking so much space in the thread?

You can use the spoiler codes as instructed by this post.

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Yeah, it's quite clearly a cruise missile, with that air intake thingie, but a question remains. It could be the generic one or the more modern emblematic one, and I'm inclined for the first option, as it looks really modern, but I can't find the exact model in Google and looks like a mish-mash of various models, but I'm not an expert.