Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[BenZL43]

If China is too stable, make it a bit unstable. Yup, DoC is too inertia sometimes but code-spawning barbarians just to take over the cities aren't elegant.

As you can see on this image:

Spoiler :

It is ideal IMO to make the DoC's China going after being "Han" then being "Wei". Most of the cities built in-game at 200AD were like Chang'an (Xi'an), Luoyang, and Ye (Beijing). We just need to find an elegant way to make Jiangling (Nanjing) and the rest of cities south of Nanjing (usually there's Shanghai (?, forgot whether it's north or south of Nanjing), Fuzhou, Guangzhou, Chengdu, etc) to become independent at least until Mongol attack.

Spoiler :

Uh, I think I have to continue working that city names mod that cover names of ancient China lol

Human can try to re-conquer those south, thus solve NKN's request

If China needs more excitement, it should be in classical era. China is now booooring from -3000 to 1200. By far the longest stretch for a civilization to have ZERO real threats.

Nah, the problem is, how? I think simulating the fall of Han Empire into DoC is too complicated.. I can't even imagine that, read it over and over at Wikipedia and still don't understand

 

[BenZL43]

Perhaps, we could have an event of rebellion, triggered by time or by stability drop, or by stability drop between specified range of time (so it's unpredictable) , where owning a lot of money (thus good economy) can "bribe" the southern cities to cancel the rebellion and stay with you whereas having insufficient amount of money means southern cities to break free (as Independents, not own Civilization!) and declared war on you, along with your units off course.

Therefore the only way to avoid this event is by keeping your citizens happy, keep the empire stable and good economy (good trade and good relationship with people from the west, etc)

P.S: afaik, happiness level affect stability right? Keep slaving your citizen to whip buildings, and your stability level can drop?

 

[Chep]

Okay, I've decided to give the Modern Era a try (mostly to test my computer...awfully slow).
I though the annoying rebirths might be less of a problem here, boy was I wrong -.-

I fought the Ottomans and when my troops where 1 turn away from taking Cairo and Mekka the Ottomans collapsed and now I have 10 turns of peace with Egypt, Arabia & Iran and my progress is halted since none of them even wants to open borders -.-
(guess I can be glad that Byzantium didn't join in as well -.-)
Seriously, cities that are "threatened" should not go to another civ if the previous owner collapses or the player should have the option to declare war on a reborn civ if he's been fighting the previous owner.

Also the techcost-thing has some weird consequences: many of my cities had to starve, as this helped me get below the population limit and thus tech faster. (At the same time this HELPS stability as happiness increases). I also actively avoided Biology and the techs that cause the spread of the "food corporations" as they'd only cause cities to grow and become unhappy at the same time.
With the advent of drafting this was solved more or less, but I really think that for the industrial and modern eras the population limit should be higher while for ancient, classical and _maybe_ medieval eras should have a lower pop-limit.

And finally, the civics:
It is 1904 and I am running these civics - and I get negative stability due to outdated and incompatible civics. Wait, what? I don't really get it, they should all work nicely together and are pretty modern overall. (since I've been at 100% research with positive income for the whole game so far, I feel I need either Capitalism or Mercenaries and Mercenaries unfortunately is even more outdated.)

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

It's not that we really want to have a -25% GPP effect. Currently I'd like to try Slavery without it, the happiness changes are harsh enough.

Edit: missed the new page. Yeah, the population limits need to be better adjusted to era.

 

[TimSLS]

TD-
You make your points well - one clarification, my point was that Ghengis Khan as a Chinese general was the politically correct interpretation, not the prevalent one. Though in addition to nationalists, I have known a few otherwise well-educated Chinese speakers who believed this (though they were usually science concentrators who had never really bothered to think about history, and so had unthinkingly accepted certain things). I only meant that the absurdity of this belief illustrates the length to which political correctness can extend.
I enjoyed our discussion! Agreed, we shouldn't continue with the walls of text, so I won't attempt a counterargument to your many excellent points. But I love pop culture tv enough that I can't resist asking what you make of the distinctive manchu elements in the Qing dramas you mention (ie, little silly bits of manchu language like ama for father, gege for princess, fujin for imperial wife), distinctive manchu clothes and hair styles, plotlines revolving around horsemanship, hunting, royal tours of the steppe, banner membership and other such elements that wouldn't make sense in a Han ruled dynasty...obviously these are very shallow elements of culture, but I've always thought they seem to be part of the appeal to modern viewers. Eh, at any rate, you are certainly right about the Sinization process (especially in the middle and late period), but I always think there is enough there (expecially for the first 100 years) to represent a composite culture.

 

[Leoreth]

You can always make a new thread if you want to continue your discussion.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I think those elements do indicate some level of difference; like you said, Sinicization wasn't immediate, and these things are reminders of that.
Although in Northern China, there was much more of an emphasis on a cavalry tradition than in the South so that part doesn't seem as unfitting to me.
The audience, I don't think, really stops to think about it that much.
Obviously, the first and foremost priority with these shows is entertainment if anything.
I rewatched the trailer for Taizu Mishi and while I remembered it best for its impressive set-piece battles for a TV series,
I didn't recall the perennially popular "flying" soldiers effortlessly scaling city walls just by power-walking up the air.
Similarly with Palace and its protagonist having been magically transported back in time to the Qing Dynasty.

It goes to show that at least in the case of Taizu Mishi, that if there's one constant around the world,
the educational value of a period piece always takes a backseat to the entertainment value.
Like in Ryse: Son of Rome, where Boudicca rides an elephant or the entirety of Sengoku Basara to name a few.

EDIT: ninja'ed by Leoreth. This is my last response.

 

[JujuLautre]

What about making so that with slavery, you can only whip at most N happy citizens ? With N=0, that would mean that you could only whip away unhappy citizens, but that may be too much.
The reason I say "N happy citizens at most" instead of "N citizens at most" (which would be an easy way to nerf slavery) is that slavery is often used as a tool to regulate unhappy population for early civilizations, and I'm not sure it should be nerfed to the point that population control is impossible.

That may be a bit too much thinking out of the box, and I did not think about it too profoundly, so you may safely ignore this suggestion if you wish.

 

[yurisusuki]

-25% gpp could move to central planning.

Or -25% GPD



Someone have played RFCA?
i just played 2 times but i see something nice about CHina and Dynasties
and based on this i will make a suggestion

When CHina is unstable..in especific dates rebels appear in some region(Based on dynasties) and if they take a city in 2 turns they will survive..but if no..they will collapse..with this we can have 2 different dynasties at the same time..but the ''Major'' dynastie receive a big stability hit to force them to collapse

I know its not a really good idea..but is better share this with yours than just ''share'' with my conscience

 

[youtien]

We have to clarify what this mod is pursuing. No game can be a perfect simulator, and some mechanism just for nerfing one civ are not elegant and fun. You can always make some quests.

Speaking of China, I somehow thought of tweaking the Great wall... instead of automatically block out barbs, make it +50% defense to fort, and/or +50 against barbs for unit in forts. The Great Wall requires not religion, but 3-5 forts to build, and let it be cheaper, like 200 hammers. Maybe also, fort gives full yields an improvement gives.

This is more realistic: the Great Wall is built by connecting walls and forts already there. You'll have to spare more workers for building forts, and have to garrison them. In past China could play a peaceful way with minimal army for 4000 years, this is unrealistic.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, I also think that the Great Wall is too powerful and completely negates the main historical challenge China faced for almost all of its history.

I'd like something that reduces barbarian movement speed in your own borders, or provides the Russian UP effect against barbarians in your territory.

 

[NKN]

And the barbarians need to be more powerful. They're nothing compared to what Rome, Ethiopa, Aztec, America, Persia etc have to deal with.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

I'm new to SVNs . How do I download the latest version for play ? What do I need to do exactly ?

 

[Leoreth]

Have you read the guide in the first post of this thread?

 

[yurisusuki]

I'm new to SVNs . How do I download the latest version for play ? What do I need to do exactly ?

Spoiler :

Is there a way I can play with the most recent additions/fixes without waiting for the next release?
There is, and it's called SVN. SVN or Subversion is a software that provides an online repository for data which can be connected to a folder in one's Explorer. From then on, I can commit recent changes to this repository and you can update your version of it (you can't commit without password, though ).
The DoC repository is available HERE. The easiest way to access it under Windows is to download and install Tortoise SVN. After that, you can right-click on your Beyond the Sword\Mods\ folder and the new option "SVN Checkout" will appear. This will open a prompt where you enter DoC's SVN URL ("https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/Dawn_of_Civilization/"). This will create a new folder "Dawn_of_Civilization" in your Mods folder. You will have to rename it to "RFC Dawn of Civilization" for the modmod to work. Afterwards, you only have to right-click on that folder and select "SVN Update" to get my most recent updates.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

I did actually, and I tried to download the repository. Each time I tried download that, it said the repository is too long. I don't know where to get Tortoise SVN for mac though. If I need that before downloading the SVN.

 

[Leoreth]

You definitely need one client to download the repository, I've linked to Tortoise because it's the easiest method in Windows. How are you even able to play the mod on a Mac though?

 

[Leoreth]

What about making so that with slavery, you can only whip at most N happy citizens ? With N=0, that would mean that you could only whip away unhappy citizens, but that may be too much.
The reason I say "N happy citizens at most" instead of "N citizens at most" (which would be an easy way to nerf slavery) is that slavery is often used as a tool to regulate unhappy population for early civilizations, and I'm not sure it should be nerfed to the point that population control is impossible.

That may be a bit too much thinking out of the box, and I did not think about it too profoundly, so you may safely ignore this suggestion if you wish.

But the act of slavery creates more unhappiness, opening more citizens for slavery ...

 

[merijn_v1]

2 Small text errors in the URV.

The first Orthodox URV says: Build 4 Catholic Cathedrals.
While it should be orthodox cathedrals ofcourse.

The 3rd Buddhist URV says: Have cautious or better relations with civilizations.
I think it's better if it says "Have cautious or better relations with all civilizations".

 

[Hojsimpson]

I think agrarianism is boring and Slavery has been present during many centuries.
What about two "slavery" civics?

Random names for the civics:
"Slavery before the middle age"
Can´t have a state religion while running this civic.(When catholicism came they banned slavery)
This will be like the old slavery, I think that Egypt need whipping for their UHV and the new slavery makes many angry faces.
Maybe this could also give you a chance when you defeat a unit to give you a slave(Rome, Greece, aztecs.. etc used slaves)
Maybe a penalty would be... X angry faces per religion in a city?


"Slavery of the middle age"(Comes with feudalism)
You can run this civic and have a state religion.
You will be less likely to use whipping , maybe more angry faces?
"Serfdom is the status of peasants under feudalism"
X% fastest workers?
Can capture/use slaves from America and Africa.


This is not only for European civs,
From Wikipedia:
"Men sentenced to castration were turned into eunuch slaves of the Qin dynasty state to do forced labor, for projects like the Terracotta Army"

You could combine this with the idea of a more challenging China fighting with barbs(barbs give slaves)

PD: I have never used agriarianism.