Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[The Diocletian]

Leoreth, in my recent Russia domination attempt, the recent maintenance cost changes just absolutely killed me. I had thirty five cities, and had control over Russia, Siberia, the Middle East, Greece, and Turkey. I was losing 150ish gold per turn at zero percent slider. (Oddly, this only happened after I switched to Communistic civics. I was able to research decently before that.) As an experiment, I liberated all unhistorical cities, bringing me up to a whopping +57 GPT at zero percent. rolleyes

Therefore, I would like to make a small suggestion; a change to the Central Planning civic:

Central Planning
+1 from Workshop, Watermill
+1 from specialists
Double Production Speed for Coal Plant
Double Production Speed for Factory​

Reduced (maybe no?) maintenance cost from number of cities​

This is distinct from the Totalitarianism modifier, "No maintenance cost from distance from Palace", instead reducing (or eliminating) the modifier from increased maintenance due to a high number of cities.

Just a thought.

 

[soul-breathing]

Central Planning is strong enough now, if make it reduce maintenance cost from number of cities, then game after communism will become too easy.

As "losing 150ish gold per turn at zero percent slider", maybe you haven't built any courthouse and play at emperor?

 

[The Diocletian]

Nope, Monarch, a courthouse in practically ever city.

If this makes Central Planning too strong (which is what I was afraid of), perhaps we could drop the increased production speed of the Factory and Coal Plant, although this seems like a token nerf.

The +1 hammer per specialist is very flavorful and represents Communism very well. The food bonus is one of the main reasons to run Central Planning, to counteract the food-poor Siberia. I wouldn't like dropping either of these...

Alternatively, we could drop the Dynasticism-esque bonus from Totalitarianism, and add the suggested mechanic in it's place.

 

[soul-breathing]

If so, then I think it's necessary to nerf Siberia, now in this game Siberia is a lot of grassland, after biology, you can farm here, 4 foods per tile, 20 pops per city easily, Obviously it's too strong. In my opinion maybe we should turn more grassland to tundra, and make it possible to farm on tundra after biology(or ecology)

And in fact, I am also playing as Russia now, also monarch, I am not using Central planning but Free Market, only losing 200ish gold per turn at 100% slider.

 

[The Diocletian]

Yes, in my American domination game, I was able to keep my economy afloat with Golden Age Towns, but even then I simply couldn't support any more research past Radio, and in the end I had to sell techs and build wealth just to stay alive.

Now if I can barely do it as America, who has hands down the best economy in the game, how am I to do it with Russia?

 

[soul-breathing]

Yes, in my American domination game, I was able to keep my economy afloat with Golden Age Towns, but even then I simply couldn't support any more research past Radio, and in the end I had to sell techs and build wealth just to stay alive.

Now if I can barely do it as America, who has hands down the best economy in the game, how am I to do it with Russia?

Why not make your production to wealth in every city? To be honest, I've never experienced what you say in my games, even emperor...

 

[The Diocletian]

Because then I cannot train a military to fight and win wars to gain control of terrain to win a domination victory.

I think through careful micromanagement, I could get an espionage economy going while building wealth in core cities. Bleh.

 

[Oregon Lee]

Need more blue meth production.

 

[youtien]

4-5 turns respawn causes the problem that led me abandon both of my Persia games:
you conquer Babylonia, and the turn your troops reach Jerusalem Babylonia declares independence with a dozen or more new troops that you cant fight and you basically lose half your empire.

considering that respawned empires get boni to technologies and armies they really shouldnt respawn more quickly than that, imho.

Garrison your conquered cities. In my Persia game, Babylon respawned when I leave my garrison out. I reloaded and kept garrison, and I was good.

That's good. Conquered civs should surely revolt if you don't have enough power there.

 

[Fresol]

Leoreth, in my recent Russia domination attempt, the recent maintenance cost changes just absolutely killed me. I had thirty five cities, and had control over Russia, Siberia, the Middle East, Greece, and Turkey. I was losing 150ish gold per turn at zero percent slider. (Oddly, this only happened after I switched to Communistic civics. I was able to research decently before that.) As an experiment, I liberated all unhistorical cities, bringing me up to a whopping +57 GPT at zero percent. rolleyes

I believe what you experienced is the change Leoreth made that instead of tech penalty for large empires, an extra maintainence cost applied.

 

[youtien]

I believe what you experienced is the change Leoreth made that instead of tech penalty for large empires, an extra maintainence cost applied.

Yes, you get extra penalty every city past 20th. And it seems doesn't reduce back even if you give out some. Does it?

 

[Chep]

Garrison your conquered cities. In my Persia game, Babylon respawned when I leave my garrison out. I reloaded and kept garrison, and I was good.

That's good. Conquered civs should surely revolt if you don't have enough power there.

how many units did you leave there? I had about 2-3 per city and they were just expelled like with any uprising, didnt know that this was dependent on military power in the area...

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, you get extra penalty every city past 20th. And it seems doesn't reduce back even if you give out some. Does it?

Of course it does. But I don't think the maintenance costs in the economic advisor are calculated every time and instead reflect what was paid last turn, so you have to wait a turn for it to take effect.

Generally if you want this mechanic to be balanced better I need saves with large empires so I can finetune it myself.

 

[youtien]

Of course it does. But I don't think the maintenance costs in the economic advisor are calculated every time and instead reflect what was paid last turn, so you have to wait a turn for it to take effect.

Generally if you want this mechanic to be balanced better I need saves with large empires so I can finetune it myself.

Generally when you get that large, you are leader of the world, and any severe penalty will irritate we players. Extra cost seems ok for now. Because we are lack of AI ability, and it's very hard to improve it, I think more early-mid game balancing would be better for gameplay.

 

[The Diocletian]

I appreciate it, Leoreth.

You see, I think razing most of the "bad" cities I kept would alleviate the problem, but I was in no position to take the stability hit.

 

[Leoreth]

I appreciate it, Leoreth.

You see, I think razing most of the "bad" cities I kept would alleviate the problem, but I was in no position to take the stability hit.

Nice try, but the penalty is based on population, not cities.

I'll take a look at the save though.

 

[The Diocletian]

Nice try, but the penalty is based on population, not cities.

I'll take a look at the save though.

Wasn't trying anything, honest. I thought it was based solely on city number, not population.

Thanks anyways.

 

[Leoreth]

New commit:
- fixed the first Buddhist URV goal
- fixed the linear regression bug for less than two data points

 

[youtien]

Now you get economic crisis when you are 3000 BC civs in first 50 turns, especially China. You don't have actual loss but it is annoying.

 

[Leoreth]

I wanted to play China soon anyways so I will have a look at that.