Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Leoreth]

Yeah, it's Merkel's next condition. No spawn until the austerity measures are implemented

Seriously though, I'll have a look at it.

 

[Hamir]

Weird bug, playing as England, i keep getting a cataphract or chariot (alternately) spawning in the middle of the Antarctic every 5-6 turns. You can't move it. If you delete or keep, it doesn't matter, a new one spawns a few turns later....

 

[BenZL43]

It's working fine now thanks

 

[Leoreth]

Weird bug, playing as England, i keep getting a cataphract or chariot (alternately) spawning in the middle of the Antarctic every 5-6 turns. You can't move it. If you delete or keep, it doesn't matter, a new one spawns a few turns later....

Couldn't reproduce that after I've fixed Greece's spawn problem, so I'm going to assume that they shared a cause. If the problem persists, please report back.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Scandinavia shouldn't have so much grasslands & should be given fish/tundra.
Also why does Australia have peaks, particularly in the middle of the desert.

 

[great.taurus]

Also why does Australia have peaks, particularly in the middle of the desert.

The mountains around Sydney are the Australian Alps, and the desert ones are meant to represent the MacDonnel Ranges. You could probably get away with making them both hills, though.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

I get it, but considering there are heap of far higher ranges not represented for gameplay reasons (Iran, Korea, Eastern America) those mountains in Australia just look stupid.
Speaking for of terrain, Tibets desert tiles would look better tundra, and Hanseong should be a hill to help for defense, with a fish in the straight between they and Japan for them to fight over.

3000 BC Yerevan (Artarxaxa doesn't spawn most games because Babylon or Persia territory) would be good to stop Babylon always founding that damn city on the Copper.

 

[Hippo8085]

In my opinion, mountains should be used more as terrain blocks. The Appalachians are fairly wide settled, same with the Rockies, same with even the Alps, so there could be a case to eliminate them as well, along with most of the other mountains (with maybe the exception of the Andes because of Inca's UP. Australia's mountains were a terrain block that it was feared to venture across in real life, so why not in the game?

 

[civ_king]

In my opinion, mountains should be used more as terrain blocks. The Appalachians are fairly wide settled, same with the Rockies, same with even the Alps, so there could be a case to eliminate them as well, along with most of the other mountains (with maybe the exception of the Andes because of Inca's UP. Australia's mountains were a terrain block that it was feared to venture across in real life, so why not in the game?

The Alps and Rockies need to stay, it'd be crazy to get rid of them as the map would look bad

 

[Hippo8085]

Same reason the Australian mountains should stay.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, the Tamils are now playable with the latest commit. They lack true dynamic naming and some other flavour stuff but as a whole they are okay.

Their UHV is:
- have 3000 gold and 2000 culture in 800 AD
- control or vassalize Srivijaya and the Deccan in 1000 AD
- sink 25 enemy ships

I'm not quite happy with the third goal, does anyone have a better idea? IOSI, if you read this, what exactly were you expecting from the "Vikings of India"?

I tested the first goal, it's quite doable. The second one should be possible as well, I had the Deccan in 800 AD already.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

I'm not sure you should use the terms Srivijaya or Deccan. The first because "Indonesia" is clearer, especially as it could very well be Majapahit; the second because many of us are unfamiliar with Indian geography, and the term "South India" seems simple enough.

 

[civ_king]

Okay, the Tamils are now playable with the latest commit. They lack true dynamic naming and some other flavour stuff but as a whole they are okay.

Their UHV is:
- have 3000 gold and 2000 culture in 800 AD
- control or vassalize Srivijaya and the Deccan in 1000 AD
- sink 25 enemy ships

I'm not quite happy with the third goal, does anyone have a better idea? IOSI, if you read this, what exactly were you expecting from the "Vikings of India"?

I tested the first goal, it's quite doable. The second one should be possible as well, I had the Deccan in 800 AD already.

1) Sounds good
2) So basically they have to kill Indonesia since they wont have enough cities to vassalize.
3) It will do for now

I'm not sure you should use the terms Srivijaya or Deccan. The first because "Indonesia" is clearer, especially as it could very well be Majapahit; the second because many of us are unfamiliar with Indian geography, and the term "South India" seems simple enough.

Deccan, besides it comes with mouse over

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Their UHV is:
- have 3000 gold and 2000 culture in 800 AD
- control or vassalize Srivijaya and the Deccan in 1000 AD
- sink 25 enemy ships

I'm not quite happy with the third goal, does anyone have a better idea? IOSI, if you read this, what exactly were you expecting from the "Vikings of India"?

I meant that in a very broad sense, in that they are a naval/trade civilization whose power base is on the continent, and whose influence reached across many nearby countries. I did not mean pillaging and berserking, of course.

- Control directly or by vassal 10 Coastal cities in 1100 AD
This provides for more diversity. But the best target is still Indonesia & Deccan.

- Control the most Cultured city in South and Southeast Asia by 1200 AD
You can either build up your own Culture, and/or actually conquer Pataliputra. The historical Cholas did both, actually.

- Acquire X amount of Gold via Trade by 1200 AD
Trade meaning Trade Routes, Resource Trade (with Rome, Greece, China), and possibly Great Merchants.

The last one goes with my proposed UP for the Tamils (other than free Feitorias everywhere). Extra from Trade Routes.

 

[civ_king]

Okay, the Tamils are now playable with the latest commit. They lack true dynamic naming and some other flavour stuff but as a whole they are okay.

Their UHV is:
- have 3000 gold and 2000 culture in 800 AD
- control or vassalize Srivijaya and the Deccan in 1000 AD
- sink 25 enemy ships

I'm not quite happy with the third goal, does anyone have a better idea? IOSI, if you read this, what exactly were you expecting from the "Vikings of India"?

I tested the first goal, it's quite doable. The second one should be possible as well, I had the Deccan in 800 AD already.

Just loaded Tamils and the Victory screen shows Ethiopia's conditions

South India needs iron, I recommend Sri Lanka since it has been made the since ~300 BC

 

[Tigranes]

Being a strong Saivite, Sundara Pandyan was enraged by the destruction of the Hindu temples by the Muslim armies. He assembled his army and planned to march them at once to face the invading armies of the Delhi Sultanate.

How about the 3rd Tamil UHV would have something to do with the resistance to Islam? Historically the South India was the last portion of Hindustan not controlled by Muslims. If we extrapolate this to "wanted but could not achieve" principle we could come up with UHV like -- Do not allow any city with Islam in Hindustan longer than for 5 turns until British Raj era.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm not sure you should use the terms Srivijaya or Deccan. The first because "Indonesia" is clearer, especially as it could very well be Majapahit; the second because many of us are unfamiliar with Indian geography, and the term "South India" seems simple enough.

I chose Srivijaya because the goal doesn't require all of Indonesia, and includes the Malay peninsula. Deccan should be fairly clear imo, and there's always the tile tooltip to get people on the right track.

I meant that in a very broad sense, in that they are a naval/trade civilization whose power base is on the continent, and whose influence reached across many nearby countries. I did not mean pillaging and berserking, of course.

- Control directly or by vassal 10 Coastal cities in 1100 AD
This provides for more diversity. But the best target is still Indonesia & Deccan.

- Control the most Cultured city in South and Southeast Asia by 1200 AD
You can either build up your own Culture, and/or actually conquer Pataliputra. The historical Cholas did both, actually.

- Acquire X amount of Gold via Trade by 1200 AD
Trade meaning Trade Routes, Resource Trade (with Rome, Greece, China), and possibly Great Merchants.

The last one goes with my proposed UP for the Tamils (other than free Feitorias everywhere). Extra from Trade Routes.

Hmm ... your first one doesn't seem that bad, at least I couldn't think of a way to abuse it. I like the third one, something trade related was missing and I didn't want another OB goal, but it's going to require some extra DLL event triggers. Let's see.

I'd like the culture stuff to be an earlier goal (first it was even dated to 600 AD but you can hardly get anything done by then), so that you're done with that before you can go conquering.

South India needs iron, I recommend Sri Lanka since it has been made the since ~300 BC

Good idea. It's just a pity that you would have to found on it then. I guess I'll have to implement edead's "cities count as appropriate tile improvement with regards to yields" change.

How about the 3rd Tamil UHV would have something to do with the resistance to Islam? Historically the South India was the last portion of Hindustan not controlled by Muslims. If we extrapolate this to "wanted but could not achieve" principle we could come up with UHV like -- Do not allow any city with Islam in Hindustan longer than for 5 turns until British Raj era.

Good idea, but this kind of goal would really depend on the proactivity of the Mughals. And I don't know if I want the Tamils to go through the whole British conqueror thing ...

 

[civ_king]

I chose Srivijaya because the goal doesn't require all of Indonesia, and includes the Malay peninsula. Deccan should be fairly clear imo, and there's always the tile tooltip to get people on the right track.


Hmm ... your first one doesn't seem that bad, at least I couldn't think of a way to abuse it. I like the third one, something trade related was missing and I didn't want another OB goal, but it's going to require some extra DLL event triggers. Let's see.

I'd like the culture stuff to be an earlier goal (first it was even dated to 600 AD but you can hardly get anything done by then), so that you're done with that before you can go conquering.


Good idea. It's just a pity that you would have to found on it then. I guess I'll have to implement edead's "cities count as appropriate tile improvement with regards to yields" change.


Good idea, but this kind of goal would really depend on the proactivity of the Mughals. And I don't know if I want the Tamils to go through the whole British conqueror thing ...

It is a pity, but considering currently they don't have any metals I'd say it is a substantial upgrade to have a settled on iron. I personally couldn't get Deccan very easy since by the time I spawned, India had a number of axeman.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, I defeated India using mercenaries mainly (since gold is not the problem). Sri Lanka will get iron though.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I like the third one, something trade related was missing and I didn't want another OB goal, but it's going to require some extra DLL event triggers. Let's see.

I suggest an UP other than extra Commerce from water tiles, as we already have Colossus & Feitoria for that.

IMO the UP should be something related to Trade Routes to encourage OB with Rome, Greece, and China.

I'd like the culture stuff to be an earlier goal (first it was even dated to 600 AD but you can hardly get anything done by then), so that you're done with that before you can go conquering.

Well it can be rephrased into "Having the highest Cultured city in South and Southeast Asia some time between 600 AD and 1200 AD".

I like the idea of using a Cultural goal to covertly incentivize the Tamils to invade/collapse India. A more peaceful builder player could go Wonders (Tamils should have a clear shot at Khajuraho & Shwedagon Paya). A more militant player could just let India build them and later conquer Delhi & Pataliputra.

Or, a less flexible version of it:
- Build 20 religious buildings (including Wonders) by 800 AD. Make their UB count as a Hindu religious building (same as how Ho Trai count as a Buddhist one).