Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[lp_04]

Please consider adding the Celts and the Assyrians. It would be a great advantage to this mod's diveristy.

Reasons:

Spoiler :

The celts are present as indie/native, but they would obviously create some interesting action arroud pre-classical and classical Europe.

Spoiler :

Assyria was the most powerfull empire in pre-classical middle-east, although conquered by neobabilonia, the suceded in creating the greatest mesopotamian empire. They are of such importance in history that are considered as one of the main pressures that led phoenicia east and, ultimately, that made Qart-Hadasht the empire it was in the east. They conquered everything from sumeria to Syria to Egypt. If this isn't enough, Assyrian history spawns for almost 2000 years, (Egypt does not have 3000 years of history). It is a mark of civ series that babilonia is better than assyria but they are just alike. I know that Sumer and/or Akkad would make great additions too, but the territory would become really crowded.

The Celts (Idea):

Spoiler :

The Celts
Leader: Boudicca (=BTS)
UU: Gaelic Warrior (=BTS)
UB: Sacred Groove (rep. pagan temple. +2 happiness and +2 culture. 20% cheaper)
UA: Power of Druidism - 25% of culture in core area increases city production towards pre-industrial civilizan and military units.

Starting Region - central Europe/Freankfurt or somewhere nearby.
Starting year - 1500 BC or 1000 BC

Historical Goals:
1) Indo-European Migrations (Settle Scotland and Irealnd and become the civ with most european territory by 100 AD)
2) Icenii War Chant (Never loose a city for civilizations before 850 AD)
3) European Identity (Sign up open borders with England, Germany, Portugal, Spain and France and dever loose a city by war to these civs until 1500 AD)

Notes:

Spoiler :

Upon setteling Scotland or Ireland, the Celts relocate their core to this regions. England does not have control over Scotland at the start of the game (greater military/technological power while spawining to couneterbalance this?). Rome may actually have to be rebalanced I think. But yeah... Celts = Pre-medieval Europe)

The Assyrians (idea):

Spoiler :

Leader: Assurbanipal II
UU: Siege Tower (rep. catapult. +50% colateral damage while bombarding)
UB: Royal Library (rep. Library. +10% science, +2 culture. +2 culture and +2 science for each vassal state or core capital conquered)
UA: Power of Terror - Upon conquering a capital or destroying/vassalizing an Empire, recieve one free random technology owned by the conqueror.

Starting Region: That hill in northen mespoptamia
Starying Year: 1400 BC (As babylon spawns in 3000 BC)

Historical Goals:
1) Conquest of Tiglat-Pileser III (Control or Vassalize Phoenicia, Babilonia and Egypt by 500 BC)
2) Assirian Domination (Be the most advanced civilization in 100 AD)
3) Writtings of Ninive (Acquire at least 8 pre-renaissance technologies by war or diplomacy)

Notes:

Spoiler :

I am based in civV just because they have an historical veracity. Tiglat Pileser III or Assurnazirpal would also be great leaders. Asiria is the middle east pre-medieval strenght that lacks in the game while babilon simply stays as an inhibitor to an expansion against persia. And Babilon is not much more IMO (I like them thought, I dont like the AI). Babilon and Persia and even Egypt migh need a rebuild, but the game would become a really pre-classical drill.

Final Note: All the reasons I pointed out is part of a personal oppinion. All of the strategic Ideas are the colision between pure RFC strategy and historical veracity.

 

[strijder20]

I don't know exactly how feasible those ideas are, but this in particular is a very good UP concept:

UA: Power of Terror - Upon conquering a capital or destroying/vassalizing an Empire, recieve one free random technology owned by the conqueror.

 

[lp_04]

It is just an idea (The UP is based on civV so...not much credit for the idea xD)
anyway, I would really like to play with the Celts, which are way needed in Europe.The assyrians are more complex IMO...

 

[agentxorange]

It's sooooo crowded in the Middle East already though :/

As for the Celts, I believe there is a thread already dedicated to ideas for them somewhere.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, first of all, thanks for the suggestions, I always appreciate when people but some thought into civ suggestions that go beyond "they should be in because I like them / they deserve it / are important in history / hey Tibet is in so basically anything goes", and you seem to have done that with your proposed unique properties.

In any case, the list of possible civs that I myself would like to see in the game is very long, and the Celts were already on it. I fear however that for the moment we are on a hard cap of possible civilizations the game could handle. I have already discussed at a previous point that it is possible the rewrite it so that more civs and other cool stuff would become possible (I'm sure someone can dig up the post), but until then new civs are on hold for a while. Since that rewrite is such a huge thing I'd rather focus on features that don't require that much time.

Now for the suggestions themselves, I kind of disagree on what the Celtic game experience should look like. First of all, there should be a goal that's geared against Rome, maybe even conquering Rome itself. Just because that's fun and would be something to consume your resources over the course of the early game. Then I think even for a successful player losing the territory on the continent should be the usual process, i.e. if you haven't expanded to the isles by then you're toast. Lastly in my opinion the third goal should focus on Christian evangelism and monastic culture. (Oh and Sacred Groove? Didn't know the Celts had Jazz music )

The Assyrians are a new suggestion I think and surprisingly I find them rather interesting! The military and imperialistic aspect of Mesopotamian culture is kind of ignored with Babylonia's tech and culture focused game, so this is rather interesting. Not sure if it would actually work though. As already said, the region is crowded, so this might need to be a player only civ like Polynesia. On the other hand if all that AI Assyria did was sitting in Ninive and denying the Babylonians their resources that would not be that bad too. The proposed UP does sound like fun and going around conquering the Bronze Age world sounds rather cool. Even though the timeframe is rather short, maybe an interesting game is possible on the slower gamespeeds).

 

[lp_04]

Middle East would get less crowded, allowing Assyria, if:
a) Remove all the independent cities at the start of the game.
b) Jerusalem spawns at 2000 BC if the land is unclaimed by babilon or egypt.
c) Reduce the military defense of jerusalem by 1 archer.
d) Create the Hitite CS at 1000 BC (weak defenses).
e)When phoenicia spawns, it may take an assyrian city. Althogh, the great strategy for Phoenicia is not setteling in the middle east so...... Spawn them right there but makee the AI settle Carthage and Gadir (Cadis).
f) If AI Phoenicia settles/acquires Tyre, make it a vassal of Assyria until they build the palace at Carthage.
g) If Babilonia, Assyria and Persia are part of the AI, Persia and Babilonia should join in a war against the warmonger assyria. If you control Persia, Babil should have good relations until Assyria gets whiped/weakened.
h) If you are rulling as Assyria or Babilon, Persia will focus on both and take the AI then engage a war with you.
i) Assyria should reappear in the modern era as Sirian Empire or simply left outside the game when destroyed. A third option will be the total remove of Babilonia and Assyria to appear as Iraq.

Basically, unitl Persia comes west, the middle east is divided into 2 factions, 1 in the north, warmonger, and one in the south, cultured.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

I think that potentially adding an extra 50 turns to the game in the beginning and setting back the date to sometime around 4000 BC could allow the inclusion of Sumeria and the Harappa, while keeping Egypt and China as is and pushing back Babylon's spawn considerably. Also, this extra time could also facilitate restructuring the tech tree, as there would be less overlap in technology time between various civs.

 

[Leoreth]

New commit:
- Oil Industry can now spread to Brazilian cities even if they only control sugar but no oil
- fixed double tech requirements in improvement pedia
- fixed Moai Statues effect, should now immediately apply to all cities

Someone once mentioned that the Moorish UP was buggy in a similar way to the Moai Statues effect, can somebody explain that in more detail? The problem with the Moai Statues was that improvement yield was not immediately updated for all tiles when they are build, but the Moorish UP affects improvements right from the start so I'm not sure what should be wrong about it.

I think that potentially adding an extra 50 turns to the game in the beginning and setting back the date to sometime around 4000 BC could allow the inclusion of Sumeria and the Harappa, while keeping Egypt and China as is and pushing back Babylon's spawn considerably. Also, this extra time could also facilitate restructuring the tech tree, as there would be less overlap in technology time between various civs.

I've been thinking about this too.

 

[Leoreth]

New commit: Replaced Aho'eitu's LH graphics with Xyth's Tu'itatui model.

 

[agentxorange]

Adding more turns would be cool, it would also allow for Assyria then. 4000-3000BC would go pretty quick anyway.

Maybe a Hittite type civ instead of Assyria? It would still be difficult for Assyria and Babylonia to co-exist, their capitals would be so close.

 

[Leoreth]

New commit:
- increased culture cost reduction for flood plains
- updated Credits file
- fixed initial culture coverage for capitals of Portugal, Italy and Netherlands

 

[AtlantaMarty]

How many leaderheads do the Polynesians have?

Spoiler :

All these great new changes you are making make me really wish I used SVN.

 

[Leoreth]

Just one, Aho'eitu.

Spoiler :

And there's nothing stopping you from using the SVN version.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

What, Leoreth didn't outright refuse one of my ideas?

Achievement Unlocked: Have an idea that Leoreth somewhat agrees with.

 

[Chep]

To give Persia more food you could also change their UB:
Apothecary:
like market but provides +1 food to plantations in city radius (instead of the flat +2 health).

Since they will have plantations mostly in their core (incense, spices, cotton) this will give more food to Persia without strengthening their non-core-cities (okay the ones in India slightly) and won't add food resources or food in general to the area to be exploited by other civs.


something else:
I noticed that the turn when cities would flip to a new civ the enemy culture vanishes from your core but is reset before your turn begins. So you are unable to settle some areas of your core if you're boxed in early. Is that intentional?

edit: just started a game as Thailand and noticed:

you need to research Feudalism+Guilds to build your UU or you just research Military Tradition and immediately go to the improved version skipping all that, is that really intentional?

 

[lp_04]

Adding more turns would be cool, it would also allow for Assyria then. 4000-3000BC would go pretty quick anyway.

Maybe a Hittite type civ instead of Assyria? It would still be difficult for Assyria and Babylonia to co-exist, their capitals would be so close.

I wouldn't go for the Hittites. they were less significant in history in every way. Isn't France and Netherlands too close? Or Italy just flinched between france, HRE and Byzantium?. An improved pre-classical middle-east would allow 2 civs with nearby capitals to expand into north (Assyria) or south (Babilonia). And tension would be (historically) a reality.

Reducing the starting date (3500 maybe) is an interesting idea IMO. It would allow the spawning (at leat) of sumer ocercrowding a little bit the middle east but generating that particular strategy of cole borders and tension in an early stage of the game, bringing diversity and new ways of playing this mod. Sumer or Akkad is interesting, together with assyria, to make this point and create a real pre-iron age geopolitical and domination system.

 

[agentxorange]

Isn't France and Netherlands too close? Or Italy just flinched between france, HRE and Byzantium?

Assyria's capital would be 2 squares away from Babylon. If it's a human-only it could work though.

I always liked the idea of an Armenian civ myself if you wanted to add another one to the Middle East. But I probably should post that on the silly idea thread and not here

 

[baseballpie]

New commit:
- increased culture cost reduction for flood plains
- updated Credits file
- fixed initial culture coverage for capitals of Portugal, Italy and Netherlands

Wait.... you increased a reduction. Does that mean.... you decreased the penalty?

 

[AtlantaMarty]

It might be cool to add Kamehameha for when the capital is in Hawaii and the Maori leaderhead for when the capital is in New Zealand

Spoiler :

A lack of intelligence is what is stopping me

 

[agentxorange]

1) Download and install Tortoise SVN
2) Right-click on your Beyond the Sword\Mods folder and choose "SVN Checkout"
3) In the prompt, enter the following as "URL of repository": https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/Dawn_of_Civilization/
4) Wait for the download to complete
5) Rename the new folder "Dawn_of_Civilization" to "RFC Dawn of Civilization"

Straight from the man himself. Version control is E-Z. If you can type on the computer you can use SVN and Git.