Curt's Invitation - Prove God Exists!

[civ2]

Corlindale
Worse for them - and I mean it.
It was nothing more than just another attempt to "stuck together" God and science (by science I mean only the atheistic viewpoint - not the tech advances).
I really get annoyed when some idiots say that if I dismiss evolution then I must also dismiss phones and cars.
One thing is using material resources and another is trying to understand the very nature of them.
Even according to religion the human is the master over the world - which includes inventing cars and phones.

 

[CaptainF]

No proof either way.

God is intensely personal. We decide, on our own, without any prosletyzation from either spectrum, What he is, how he goes about his business, or whether he even exists.

You cannot prove something so personal either way. You and only you decide.

 

[Perfection]

I really get annoyed when some idiots say that if I dismiss evolution then I must also dismiss phones and cars.
One thing is using material resources and another is trying to understand the very nature of them.

But phone and car componants come from the undestanding that science creates, by dismissing a large part of science as bunk you are dismissing the efficacy of the societal structure that allowed these inventions to come into play.

 

[Elrohir]

You can't "prove" God's existence. He exists outside of the physical universe, outside of observable space or natural laws. You can argue that it makes sense for God to exist, or that you believe it, but eventually there is a leap of faith involved. If we could prove it, it wouldn't really be about "faith", now would it?

Anyway - I'll share a quick point or two, but don't expect me to debate this for the long haul. I don't think I can be convinced that He does, or you all can be convinced that he does.

One major reason is that I don't feel that it is at all logical, or make sense in any way that the universe could simply exist, without being created. The more we learn about ourselves, other forms of life, and the universe as a whole, the more complex and wonderful we find it. And I doubt that we have truly begun to even scratch the surface of all that we could learn. How could such a complex and huge universe come to pass, if it wasn't created?

Yes, I know, the classical response to this is then "Who created the Creator?" But, saying that there was once one thing, then another implies time, and (Correct me if this is the wrong word) causation. In other words, for there to have been something besides God, or nothing, before God, means time must have already existed.

But time is part of this universe. Isn't time just another dimension of space? Which means before the creation of the universe, there was no time, or even sequence of events. There was only God, already existing.

I guess it's a little of an odd way of explaining, but it explains it better than any other way.

 

[civ2]

Perfection
The very existance of a working car proves THAT theory being right.
The very lack of any possibilities to ever recreate "real" evolution or Big Bang proves it being nothing more then a theory without any real proof.
If you could make a frog from a fish - I'd believe in evolution.
Can you?
Or repeat the Big Bang (any version)?
NO!
And that's why THOSE theories are not more provable than the religion itself - or even less.

 

[civ2]

Elrohir
I already tried that...
It's just that they won't listen to obvious FACTS.

 

[CaptainF]

I believe this thread shows quite clearly that people have vastly differing definitions of God.

 

[civ2]

That's the main problem with "atheists" - they usually misunderstand the greatness of God and therefore mock Him.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Shouldn't you believe in religion (in part) because you blieve in God, no te other way around?

My point was that I don't expect someone who has come to the mental conclusion that there is no God, or at least that they require physical proof to believe in Him, to empathize with a religious person and their understanding of Him.

 

[Elrohir]

I believe this thread shows quite clearly that people have vastly differing definitions of God.

You needed this thread to tell you that? It's fun to debate, but honestly, I don't think anyone short of God Himself can settle this question once and for all.

 

[Kozmos]

I sincerely believe if someone is the Antichrist its CurtSibling

That said I'm going to side with him

 

[Fr8monkey]

That's the main problem with "atheists" - they usually misunderstand the greatness of God and therefore mock Him.

But the main problem as a theist, you don't realize athiests have no belief in god... therefore there is nothing to mock. We don't mock something that does not exist.

 

[civ2]

Fr8monkey
Please do read through "religion-related" threads on page 1 of Off-topic.
Then you should understand what I mean.

 

[skadistic]

God exsists only in the minds of men that believe in it. So proof of god is all around. Just ask a believer if he says he believes then god exsists.

 

[Urederra]

So does Santa Claus then.

 

[Kozmos]

No no we dont mock god, just the people who believe in him

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

So does Santa Claus then.

santa claus has not been active in the world. we also know he is a fabrication, thus why we buy christmas presents, and he doesnt bring them to us

 

[GenMarshall]

So does Santa Claus then.

Of course Santa Claus exists, its one of the names given to Saint Nicholas. St. Nicholas has been known for secret gift giving and thus the legend of Santa Claus is born.

 

[Urederra]

santa claus has not been active in the world. we also know he is a fabrication, thus why we buy christmas presents, and he doesnt bring them to us

But Santa Claus exists, He just works through the parents.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

But Santa Claus exists, He just works through the parents.

dont be rediculous, you know what the point was, youre just trying to derail a discussion because we've exhausted it. Agnostics and Athiests are incredulous, so there's no point to trying to argue with them about prood of God