D.C. Circuit guts ObamaCare

[RobAnybody]

As Tim likes to point out, sometimes it not about convincing the person you're quoting, but more about the other people "listening".

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Oh and for the record, since I got Obamacare, not only did I get access to RX's I couldn't afford before but actually needed, but they actually dropped in price 75% since last year when I first joined.

My anecdote just wiped the effin floor with y'alls.

@above - that's a valid point

 

[Crackerbox]

Hell no. Much of this topic is vast oversimplification of the complexities of American patients, physicians, managed care, politicians driving up the cost of Obamacare with pork for their constituants, tort reform, indigent patients increasing due to a rotten American economy, and so on.

Obamacare has been a huge lie since it was proposed. Instead of making something comprehensive by putting our best minds on it, it's a rotten political move to pretend to give the guilible America people something for nothings (the cost of a cell phone bill, my butt). Anyone who worked in healthcare could give the government a long list of ideas to cut costs.

You're demonizing doctors in this topic, as if they're rich fat cats preying upon the poor American consumer. That's a bunch of garbage. Come suckle at the fat sow's nipple and get a free drink courtesy of the Federal Government.

Sit in an employee benefits meeting sometime and see the shock of the preponderance of employees at their new medical costs. Just rely upon a few anecdotal forum posts. Ignore journal articles and journalism pieces. After all, they're all lying to you about Obamacare, which is the best thing since sliced bread. Obama is the saviour of the USA.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Indigents patients are only a problem because as a society, we decided it wasn't cool to let people die if they didn't have insurance.

But until now, we also decided it was totes mcgotes cool to let people not have insurance either because they couldn't afford it or they could and didn't give a damn about the cost to society when they wound up in the ER.

But now everyone can get coverage, which overall brings the cost down and keeps a lot of people out of the expensive ER in the first place.

 

[Crackerbox]

Wake up! Nonprofit medical centers have traditionally helped the indigent. The indigent prior to Obamacare could sign up for Medicaid. That's been around since the 1965. We've had a special medical insurance program called SCHIP to offer a measure of health care for young people since 1997. The indigent have always has medical care. Many physicians wrote off the costs to lots of these folks over the years.

The uninsured were those who worked part-time and not elgible for benefits. Lots of people couldn't afford health insurance.

Look at the decline in the American economy under Pres. Obama. It's unbelievable. 1/3 of Millenials live with their parents and even though they have graduated from college can't find jobs. So they can sign up for Obamacare because they can't find work. Great, just great. So instead a entry level position for them in a corporation, those jobs have left.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfe...s-a-record-100-million-americans-not-working/
100 million Americans are not working after five years of Obama

Spoiler :

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) jobs report for December counted 74,000 jobs created last month. That was less than half the 200,000 new jobs expected.

Nevertheless, the BLS reported those 74,000 new jobs as reducing at least what it calls the U3 unemployment rate by three tenths of a percentage point, from 7.0% to 6.7%. That was because 347,000 workers fled the work force altogether last month, and so were no longer counted as unemployed.

Those 347,000 workers leaving the workforce altogether were almost 5 times (4.689) the 74,000 new jobs created. But the BLS, and the New York Times, still count that as headline unemployment plummeting on net to 6.7% from 7.0%. In fact, all of the decline in the U3 headline unemployment rate since President Obama entered office has been due to workers leaving the work force, and therefore no longer counted as unemployed, rather than to new jobs created.

Those 347,000 for December, 2013, however, are still out there not working, and suffering. Indeed, they joined a near record of more than 102 million Americans not working in December, all still out there and suffering without jobs. Those 102 million Americans are the human face of an employment-population ratio stuck at a pitiful 58.6%. In fact, more than 100 million Americans were not working in Obama’s workers’ paradise for all of 2013 and 2012.

The 102.159 million Americans not working in December is not the all-time record of Americans not working. That all-time record was set in October, 2013, at 102.896 million. The employment-population ratio that month was an even more pitiful 58.2%.

That was the lowest in 30 years, all the way back to 1983, the first year of the recovery from Reagan’s recession, which finally slayed the historic double digit inflation of the 1970s. The employment-population ratio of 57.9% in 1983 was up by the fifth year of Reagan’s recovery to 61.5%, on its way to 63.0% in 1989. That represented an increase of 17 million jobs since that recession started in July, 1981.

The same is true for the tons of people with high school education. Prior there were tons of manufacturing jobs in America with excellent benefit programs that included health care. Those jobs have gone and many of these folks are working multiple part-time jobs if they're lucky in order to just barely manage to pay their bills.

No, things are not better under President Obama and Obamacare. Medicaid didn't suddenly happen to save the day, it's been there for the poorest of the poor all along. I'd think the Millenials would be absolutely incensed at their plight.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Getting aid is not the same as having coverage and getting care.

Yeah, anyone can show up to a free clinic but that doesn't come close to covering the need. And it doesn't stop the masses from showing up at the ER when they should have had a normal doctor treating their ailments long before it reached crisis level.

Then factor in the multitudes that don't qualify for medicaid (pre-obamacare). Now they do.

lolwtf - 100 millions americans don't have jobs because OBAMA

come on dude

 

[JollyRoger]

Cases of Obama Derangement Syndrome have skyrocketed.

 

[sophie]

No, things are not better under President Obama and Obamacare. Medicaid didn't suddenly happen to save the day, it's been there for the poorest of the poor all along. I'd think the Millenials would be absolutely incensed at their plight.

I'm not incensed. I didn't have health insurance before. Now I do. Thanks Obama.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Obama does Care! *golf clap*

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Cases of Obama Derangement Syndrome have skyrocketed.

That's okay. The medical industry has demonstrated that as long as you can hang a name on it, you can treat it...probably by writing a prescription.

 

[onejayhawk]

Cases of Obama Derangement Syndrome have skyrocketed.

Now that you mention it, his foreign policy has been crazy for several months. It was very poor before, but this is historically bad. Derangement is a valid explanation.

J

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Better than the Romney Rage and McCain Madness.

Bomb, bomb, bomb,
Bomb, bomb, Iran!

 

[JollyRoger]

You have to go all the way back to 2008 to find a President with a historically worse foreign policy.

 

[RobAnybody]

Ah, deflection to an unrelated topic. The most easily recognized sign of surrender. I believe it's now called Freedom Fried.

 

[Zelig]

I'm not incensed. I didn't have health insurance before. Now I do. Thanks Obama.

As a millennial in the North America labour market I'm incensed at anything (such as having medical care or being non-bankrupt) that increases the labour supply of my peers as the baby boomers retire and/or die off.

 

[onejayhawk]

You have to go all the way back to 2008 to find a President with a historically worse foreign policy.

Correct. He was elected in 2008.

The BOA may be the worst foreign policy administration in 100 years. Since WWII only Carter is close. President Obama makes GW Bush look talented and insightful. There is one good comparison
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain

J

 

[Crackerbox]

Hey lets facilitate Obamacare for illegal immigrants too! It really helps to bolster the Democrats on the voting rolls!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-on-obamacare-fail-to-prove-citize/?page=all#!
"The Obama administration has dragged its feet on revoking Obamacare coverage for people who can’t prove U.S. citizenship or legal residency, allowing some of the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. to continue enjoying taxpayer-funded benefits, a Republican senator charged Monday.

“The Obama administration is bending over backwards to give Obamacare to illegal immigrants but won’t protect hardworking American citizens who are losing their health care coverage,” said Sen. David Vitter, Louisiana Republican and an outspoken critic of President Obama’s health care law.

“The Obama administration has been granting deadline extensions, making excuses and turning a blind eye to falsified documents by illegal immigrants,” he said. “Enough is enough, and they need to provide answers to why they think illegal immigrants should be eligible for Obamacare.”

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the health care program, disputed Mr. Vitter’s claims.

The Obamacare law specifically excluded illegal immigrants. But the administration’s effort to verify immigration status of applicants for the law’s state-based health insurance exchanges has lasted well beyond the March 31 deadline to sign up for coverage.

Nearly 1 million people who signed up but had what the administration called “immigration data-matching issues” have been given six months to produce immigration documents while still covered, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

The administration also has promised to make illegal immigrants repay the government for Obamacare benefits they redeemed during the extended document check.

In a letter to CMS Administrator Marilyn Tavenner, Mr. Vitter demanded answers about how the agency verifies immigration status and what steps are taken to force illegal immigrants to repay the government.

He questioned the agency’s failure to set a firm date for sending cancellation notices to those who fail to produce immigration or residency documents by the established Sept. 5 deadline and the special 60-day extended enrollment period for those who miss the deadline.

CMS spokesman Aaron Albright told The Washington Times that the administration had made significant progress verifying immigration documents and sent cancellation notices last week to people who hadn’t produced documents.

“We are committed to assisting consumers and protecting taxpayers by helping to ensure those who are enrolled in Marketplace coverage meet the eligibility requirements,” said Mr. Albright. “CMS did not give individuals who did not respond to our final warning notice an additional 60 days to respond. As we announced two weeks ago, 115,000 people who did not respond to our many contacts and still did not submit information have received a letter stating that their last day of Marketplace coverage is Sept. 30.”

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Correct. He was elected in 2008.

The BOA may be the worst foreign policy administration in 100 years. Since WWII only Carter is close. President Obama makes GW Bush look talented and insightful.
J

You are seriously trying to suggest that getting embroiled in two foreign civil wars that we are still trying to recover from a decade later, which can only be looked at optimistically if it serves as an unforgettable object lesson, was not the worst foreign policy in basically forever?

This is why political debate with Republican supporters is so complicated. It is so hard to tell when they are just outright joking. Assuming that this was a joke, it was freakin' hilarious, I'll give you that.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Hey lets facilitate Obamacare for illegal immigrants too! It really helps to bolster the Democrats on the voting rolls!

The Washington times has been a laughing stock for a long time.
Its practically the Onion nowdays.

 

[Crackerbox]

Getting aid is not the same as having coverage and getting care.

Yeah, anyone can show up to a free clinic but that doesn't come close to covering the need. And it doesn't stop the masses from showing up at the ER when they should have had a normal doctor treating their ailments long before it reached crisis level.

Then factor in the multitudes that don't qualify for medicaid (pre-obamacare). Now they do.

lolwtf - 100 millions americans don't have jobs because OBAMA

come on dude

Did you actually read the Forbes article?

It wasn't free clinics! Medicaid paid for health care for them. In fact, far more physicians could accept Medicaid because back then so many people had healthcare through private insurance and so the doctors could take a hit. Earlier there was a greater reimbursement for physicians as an incentive to accept it.

I wonder if some people have actually operated a business? Imagine you're waiting to get a paycheck. Your boss says, "Hey, we're only going to give you a fourth of what we used to pay you. We're doing it to cut costs. Sorry.

Imagine a plumber comes to your home and gives you a bill. You write him a check for 25% of what's on the work order. He'd be incensed!

But sure, no problem, these fat cat rich docs can afford to take a hit over and over. That won't affect their office staff's salaries any.

And when people figure out that you can give people healthcare all day long, but that they're not enough medical staff for all of these new people. What will happen then?

In American history, the way health insurance used to work was it divided up the healthcare premium costs by averaging it over a community. You shared the risk with your neighbors. But then some bright insurance company decided to use actuaries to measure the incidence of use based upon age and sex and then offered cheaper insurance to these folks and raised the rates of healthcare insurance based upon risk. It meant they could charge more for patients with preexisting conditions (but they didn't exclude them from coverage) but it made it very pricey for some.

Some young people skipped health insurance altogether, because there was a very low chance of them needing versus just paying out of pocket. Since young people don't typically get sick, then as long as they didn't say have an accidental fall and break a bone, then they might have no healthcare costs in a given year.

When there are no young healthy adults putting money in a health insurance system, it makes it even more expensive for those who are paying premiums as this cuts into the profits of the insurance company (they're not getting the cushy money from the ones who have a very low statistical chance of getting hurt or ill).

A big aspect of the high costs was this policy switch.

Want to lower healthcare costs? Get people to live healthier. You're always going to have some portion of the population with a surprise case of leukemia, or a sudden diagnosis of kidney disease, but many healthcare costs can be totally preventable. People in the US are not healthy anymore for diverse reasons like increasing portion size, the kinds of foods we eat, the high amounts of sugar in everything, high fructose corn syrup, etc.

Did you know that much of breast cancer could be detected very early and significantly reduce costs for it and SAVE LIVES? That goes for many of the top common health issues here. But we can't do that if we cut corners on things like medical testing (a criticism of this was in the youtube video who made the claim we order too many tests!) actually we need more testing but only when there's some indication for doing it. If we find a middle way, then we could made a monumental difference in the lives of patients and in their families.

You can't just throw money at an issue, expect the doctors to take a hit, lie to the American people about the real costs, add many more illegals into the system (for even if they don't get healthcare, their situation means deep economic instability and a need to visit medical centers and an inability to pay). It's complex and that's why we passed Obamacare in a very inadvised way at a time of extreme fragility in the American economy.

It's a feel good move. I'd bet that many people who enrolled could have easily gotten Medicaid prior to the passage if they'd only applied. As such, it was unnecessary as something to assist the indigent.

Economic security means better meaningful jobs that have benefits, and had we worked on THAT, then we'd be able to give people healthcare by that vehicle, and not just add more people to the Medicaid roles. If you read the link I posted from the official Obamacare website, a very large part of the new enrollees were Medicaid enrollees.